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messageAylesham redevelopment petitionattachment
Posted by Eileen September 13, 09:30PM

There are major redevelopment plans for the Aylesham Centre in the heart of Peckham. There are local concerns about their scale, nature and impact. Tiger Developments consulted on their plans during the August holidays and while many are still struggling with the impact of the Covid-19 crisis. The consultation was very inadequate. Local people are petitioning developers and the Council to collaborate on creating a meaningful consultation.

* Please sign the petition here: [change.org]
* More information: [www.ayleshamcommunityaction.co.uk]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit was september 14, 08:30pm by Eileen.

Attachments: A5 ACA flyer final.pdf (73KB)  
messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Abe_froeman September 14, 11:58AM

It looks like the redevelopment will be very attractive - much better than what is there now.

[ayleshamcentreconsultation.co.uk]

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by JohnL September 14, 02:33PM

Peckham vision have been watching this for years.

[www.peckhamvision.org]

Look at the top 3 rooftop bars in London (not been sorry) but the view from these should be included.

[www.timeout.com]

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by rahrahrah September 14, 02:55PM

Abe_froeman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It looks like the redevelopment will be very
> attractive - much better than what is there now.
>
> [ayleshamcentreconsultation.co.uk]


What's with all the palm trees in this animation? It looks like LA more than SE London

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by JohnL September 14, 03:15PM

The streets would look nice like that, but wasn't Peckham famous for plastic palm trees some years ago. I picked out a Cisco Shop too - so maybe SF.

The tower will be the issue.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Eileen September 14, 08:32PM

Hi - when you make a comment or read the post, and agree, do please remember to sign the petition:
[change.org]

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petitionattachment
Posted by Eileen September 18, 11:37PM

Photo attached of the developer's model of what is proposed for Peckham town centre.
Please SIGN the petition for more and real consultation. [www.change.org]
We can have an effect if we get a lot of signatures for thorough examination of these plans before the planning application.
There are big questions about the amount of truly affordable housing, amenities for children and families, public space, impact on the character of the area, impact on adjacent housing, and many other issues.

Attachments: Aylesham Centre redevelopment model.jpg (155.6KB)  
messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by fishbiscuits September 19, 10:00AM

rahrahrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Abe_froeman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It looks like the redevelopment will be very
> > attractive - much better than what is there
> now.
> >
> > [ayleshamcentreconsultation.co.uk]
>
>
> What's with all the palm trees in this animation?
> It looks like LA more than SE London

And surely I'm not the only one getting a bit sick of all the Del-boy/3-wheeled-van bollocks. It's getting really cringeworthy, and it's not really part of Peckham's history is it?

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Nigello September 19, 11:10AM

People need houses more than trendy bars. Tastes change. You canít stop the provision of housing because some people (many from outside the borough/area) like to have an overpriced Aperol spritz with view a for a few months of the year. (Iím thinking that some object to the towers because it would spoil the view from Frankís. If Iím wrong, ignore this!) Towers of a certain height help stop sprawl. I agree that the palm trees are naff and not good for helping shade, absorbing of rain and pollution and encouraging wildlife. Deciduous native trees are best.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Eileen September 19, 11:48AM

Hi Nigello - Housing is a key issue in this redevelopment - you are right. But the type of housing is very unclear and how much will be really affordable for local people, are among the several issues that the plans raise, including what seems to be questionable density. The petition is not opposing redevelopment, but seeking a serious and meaningful discussion of these issues following the poor consultation in August. Please support the petition [www.change.org] for a meaningful consultation which is aimed at improving the plans. Many issues need public examination and discussion.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Spartacus September 19, 12:35PM

With the way town centres are evolving due to a mixture of online shopping and now covid driving people to find better ways to shop, then the potential risk is that Peckham will ultimately suffer unless some radical thinking and redevelopment is undertaken.

Obviously the former model of business rents from shops is clearly no longer sustainable and the ability to add housing will allow things like cafes , restaurants, bars and coffee shops to move into the area as they will have a ready made audience which in turn will attract more shoppers and a different offer to the area.

Peckham Vision raise the question of changes to the character of the area yet no such concern was raised in the past when it changed from the "golden mile" with shops that rivaled Oxford Street to what we have today (there are some amazing pictures of how fantastic it all looked as late as the 60s). Whilst change can be bad, Peckham has long been due a make over to utilise this amazing shopping area in a better way. If businesses change to suit a new demographic, as they did in the past, then opportunities open up for jobs and new businesses can flourish.

Remember Eileen and Peckham Vision campaigned against the tram terminal and depot in the town centre, yet another opportunity missed to attract investment and breath life into this tired town centre whilst providing an eco-friendly form of transport.

Whilst there are genuine concerns about the development that need to be addressed during the planning stages, we can't let the view from Franks or the question about the number of locals who can afford to rent / buy the properties get in the way of investing in what could be a major vibrant town centre.

I'm not advocating not signing the petition, but I am suggesting you think carefully about what is really best for our next door neighbor who has for years been sadly the butt of jokes and poorly invested in.

Do you want it to stay as is or do you want to give it the opportunity to burst out like a phoenix and be all that it can ?

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by JohnL September 19, 02:45PM

I don't want another Elephant Park which seems to be empty and soulless (although I haven't seen it recently - maybe the final bit will improve the whole lot - we can hope)

A few new places opening at the moment it seems - can't find links online.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by jules b September 19, 11:42PM

Nigello Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People need houses more than trendy bars. Tastes
> change. You canít stop the provision of housing
> because some people (many from outside the
> borough/area) like to have an overpriced Aperol
> spritz with view a for a few months of the year.
> (Iím thinking that some object to the towers
> because it would spoil the view from Frankís. If
> Iím wrong, ignore this!) Towers of a certain
> height help stop sprawl. I agree that the palm
> trees are naff and not good for helping shade,
> absorbing of rain and pollution and encouraging
> wildlife. Deciduous native trees are best.


Iím afraid I disagree : Iím not from out of town, I live nearby and have only been to Franks a couple of times. Iím not against a development and I worry that my kids will never be able to buy a house, but by that logic we should turn Peckham (and for that matter the rest of London) into something like Hong Kong. All the new high rises at Vauxhall and Elephant havenít solved the housing crisis: theyíve made it worse because theyíre being bought purely as investments and left empty. We need the right sort of housing for Peckham and to get that, we need proper consultation.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Nigello September 20, 11:55AM

Believe me, Peckham will never be like HK. I know both places well. A twin tower of some 15-20 storeys does not make the area into the skyscraper forest that is HK.
Peckham, like its neighbours, is no where near as beautiful, safe, inspiring, better managed or civic-minded as HK.
Maybe if Peckham (and Camberwell and ED) became more densely populated it would force folk to be more mindful of each other.
London isnít anywhere near as courteous and humane as HK. If only it were.
I donít condone cheek-by-jowl living or towering blocks at all, but space is a premium in London. If you want good sized flats (not the small ones that developers now offer as standard) then building up could help achieve that.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Sue.oneill September 20, 05:17PM

Yes I've signed the petition. This development looks too high and too dense, it would be much improved if the tower was about half the size maximum and the other blocks smaller and more spaced out too.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Tosca September 20, 06:13PM

I share Eileen's concern. What Peckham needs is much more social housing. We have known the disasters of the 60s and 70s tower blocks. There are so many examples of good schemes where there's a sense of neighbourhood and community - the North Peckham is a classic example of how social housing can be provided. A monster tower block in the midst of Peckham will stand out like a horrible eyesore, the flats will be anything but affordable, and the space around it won't have any sense of community.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by TheArtfulDogger September 20, 07:10PM

There has to be a balance between someone willing to invest in Peckham at this moment in time and the ability to make Peckham the main town centre of Southwark vs what a few vocal locals require.

Some concerns are that the bar on the top of a run down car park will lose its view, so why not compromise with the developers to add a rooftop bar to one of the blocks? (Imagine the views from the top of the 20th floor, it could rival the shard)

The proposal talks about 70% of the properties being social housing, so I can't see any concern there. Will they be affordable? Sadly property rents and prices have increased over the years so they will possibly be higher than properties in the area are currently but unless you want to build cardboard box houses, that's the compromise I guess.

Will people want to live and work in London post the pandemic is a bigger question but we are a growing population and space is a premium so eventually, if not from the start.

I've been to one of Eileen's meetings in the past , the Rye Lane station action I think it was called, and my personal opinion is she is treating Peckham as a giant urban social project, pushing her way or no way which seems to about keeping Peckham down and not accepting improvements as she fears Gentrification. I don't think the development goes that far but it will attract inwards investment to the area and it's a better option than the slow death it's experiencing now as a result of a model shift in shopping habits.

As the poster above said, look carefully at the plans, but don't be constrained by Eileen's view of what Peckham should look like.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by alice September 20, 07:23PM

Youíve got me confused. 70% social housing?! That would be amazing but then asking if it would be affordable? If itís social housing - itís be social rent which is a lot less than fake Ďaffordableí rent. What have I missed?

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Eileen September 20, 08:52PM

Artful Dodger said: The proposal talks about 70% of the properties being social housing, so I can't see any concern there. Will they be affordable? Sadly property rents and prices have increased over the years so they will possibly be higher than properties in the area are currently but unless you want to build cardboard box houses, that's the compromise I guess.
------------------------------------
Alice said: 70% social housing?! That would be amazing but then asking if it would be affordable? If itís social housing - itís be social rent which is a lot less than fake Ďaffordableí rent. What have I missed?
------------------------------------
Eileen's reply: 'Affordable' housing is proposed at 35% of the total. The 70% 'social rent' housing is 70% of the 35%. So that roughly looks like about 25% of the total. 'Affordable' housing includes rent up to 80% market rent levels so it is not affordable for people on low and average means which is the majority of the people. Basically on these figures this looks like roughly about 70-75% of the total could be beyond the means of most people in Southwark.

The current petition is aimed at getting a consultation which enables everyone to get the info they need to be clear about these and other important matters, discuss them with other local people in a good process enabling people who wish to, to make informed comments. The August consultation in the summer holidays was a poor process. If you support the request for a better process do please sign the petition: [www.change.org]

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by alice September 20, 09:00PM

Thanks for clearing that up E. sounded too good to be true.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Eileen September 20, 09:41PM

Artful D said: my personal opinion is she is treating Peckham as a giant urban social project, pushing her way or no way which seems to about keeping Peckham down and not accepting improvements as she fears Gentrification
-----------------------------------
Hi Artful D: I confess that my close encounters as a resident with the consultation process over the years has driven me to working hard to change the consultation process to a meaningful one! It needs just some simple changes in understanding. For further enlightenment I invite you to read my paper here: [www.peckhamvision.org]

As for opposing gentrification that is a new one. I am also accused of encouraging it! The truth is that neither are true. I care about good decision making and an alive democracy! If you share that view do please sign the petition for a good consultation on the Aylesham redevelopment plans: [www.change.org]

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by TheArtfulDogger September 20, 10:45PM

Eileen, I stand corrected on the 70% of 35% however as the rents are set to levels defined by the GLA or Southwark council then by definition they will be within the reach of local residents and if not you need to take that up with the council.

The other 30% of the affordable housing will be set at no more than 80% of market rents.

It's not a perfect system but with the cost to the developer it's possibly tough to invest at this time and it's better than no new homes at all.

Out of curiosity what would you define as affordable (money wise) ?
Also are you saying that a larger percentage should be affordable, in which case how would you expect the developers to make money ? (Shock of the day, it's not a council building the properties, it's a company who own the land and expect an income from their investment)

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Blah Blah September 21, 01:42AM

Sorry Artful Dogger, but you only have to look at the hoards of empty flats on new developments to see that this is a bonkers way to address housing need in London. Build the housing LONDONERS need at rents they can afford, or prices they can afford to buy at. We do not need more empty investments for overseas investors.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Spartacus September 21, 07:29AM

🤔 this is Peckham we are discussing not Pimlico ?😂

With the finCEN document this weekend one hardly thinks foreign investors will be falling over themselves to put money into UK property for a while, but could be wrong and the Russians may well want to invest in property above the smelly butchers of Peckham with a bus lane running through the development !

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by JohnL September 21, 08:32AM

Spartacus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 🤔 this is Peckham we are discussing not
> Pimlico ?😂
>
> With the finCEN document this weekend one hardly
> thinks foreign investors will be falling over
> themselves to put money into UK property for a
> while, but could be wrong and the Russians may
> well want to invest in property above the smelly
> butchers of Peckham with a bus lane running
> through the development !

Flats are still over 500K - similar to SE22 and the foreigners will rent out so care about the rental income which in turn depends on transport. So many youngsters staying here for a night out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was september 21, 08:50am by JohnL.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by chris-a September 21, 06:27PM

Saw nearly 2000 signatures on the petition already, so clearly lots of people agree.

What the petition was arguing for is a real consultation, which doesn't gloss over things like how affordable the flats would be, how transport links will be affected, what green space will be created, impact on nearby residents etc. I inputted into the consultation in February but it was pretty daft (basically "do you want to see more housing, more jobs, more shops, or better transport?" - as if they are mutually exclusive).

If the community wants what is a really quite massive development then a real consultation will discover that. Something really great could be done with that site that will make Peckham a better place for 100+years, I don't think it's a case of being anti-development, it's anti-bad-development

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by TheArtfulDogger September 21, 08:16PM

I'm curious

People are saying "it's not what we want" but I've not seen anyone say what it is that would make this work

"Scale" what do you want?
"Affordable housing" great, but how much of a development needs to be affordable and what's the price point ?
"Height" great, but how high is too high ? If too low it will change the number of affordable houses on offer !
"Nature" again what do you want ?

Eileen, you are leading this charge and want a meaningful discussion but lay your cards on the table and say what it is you actually want to see there rather than "don't want this" there has to be a starting point for the discussion and engagement otherwise a compromise can't be made.

My twopennith worth, don't ask the impossible otherwise nothing will happen and the opportunity will be lost.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by Blah Blah September 21, 09:35PM

I think it is very clear what Eileen is asking for Artful. A meaningful consultation where local people can explore viable ideas that serve the local area best, as opposed to yet another get rich quick scheme for a corporate developer. There are more than enough examples of bad deals for Londoners that this and other councils have entered into.

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petition
Posted by TheArtfulDogger September 21, 09:49PM

Blah, that's the process but what are the actual parameters that are acceptable for development?

Like I said I'm not asking for people to say we don't want this and we want a consultation , I'm asking what would the development need to contain and look like as a starting point of a meaniful debate with the developer

messageRe: Aylesham redevelopment petitionattachment
Posted by Tosca September 21, 09:56PM

Following Eileen's message, I'm attaching an A4 version of the flyer for anyone who would like to put one in their window.

Attachments: ACA A4 LEAFLET final .pdf (71.5KB)  
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