40 new homes 2/2A Crystal Palace Road

[James Barber]

A new development of 40 homes is proposed to replace the current warehouses at 2 & 2A Crystal Palace Road. Please see attached.

The developer is holding an exhibition of the proposals 2-8pm 28 November at the site.

Please do pop along and give your views.

I've not seen the detail yet. My initial thought is what a shame some of the site couldnt be used to extend the Dulwich Leisure Centre.

What do you think?

[david_carnell]

What authority does the council have over granting planning permission based upon the number of affordable homes within the development?

[jimbo1964]

If it's affordable housing I guess it's no bad thing. At least they look quite interesting.

[Mick Mac]

Thanks James - Other than it being incorporated as Crystal Palace Road Limited, do we know anything about the builder/developer behind the company?

[Otta]

"affordable" to who though?

[Loz]

> My initial thought is what a shame some of the site couldnt be used to extend the Dulwich Leisure Centre.

That would involve the council purchasing the land and building the extension, wouldn't it?

Maybe a local Councillor could make such a thing happen?

[Otta]

Surely that would be pretty irreponsible in a climate where there is such a shortage of housing, particularly affordable housing.

Although I'm still wondering just who these affordable homes will be affordable to.

[granadaland]

Would be interested if the proposals include a consideration for parking for the new flat occupants, considering this stretch of road is already used by existing residents and visiting Dulwich leisure centre users.

[holloway]

this can only be a good thing, the more affordable homes, aimed at first time buyers, the better. although i resigned myself along time ago to not getting on the property ladder, plans such as this might give people with average incomes an actual chance.

[Otta]

Wouldn't get your hopes up.

I'm sorry, I don't want to be a doom monger, but I just can't imagine that anything built in East Dulwich at the moment is going to be affordable for anyone / any families on average incomes.

Hope I'm proved wrong.

[Earl Aelfheah]

granadaland Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Would be interested if the proposals include a

> consideration for parking for the new flat

> occupants, considering this stretch of road is

> already used by existing residents and visiting

> Dulwich leisure centre users.

More parking will just mean more cars.

[DaveR]

The contact, Kim Humphreys, is presumably the ex Southwark councillor and head of housing. I note that the proposed scheme is for "approximately 40 homes with on-site affordable housing" i.e. not 40 affordable homes, but a proportion of that number. I assume the council via the planning team have a degree of freedom to decide the nature and extent of the affordable component. At least they are 'on site' i.e. not planning to build an exclusive development on site A and cheap homes for poor folks at the other end of the borough.

[Mick Mac]

That how I read it too. Is it normally about 10% need to be affordable housing in each new block?

[Loz]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "approximately 40 homes with on-site affordable housing"

AKA - a shed.

[dimples]

I personally think that there needs to be more parking space round there because of the leisure centre , it's so hard to park round there and I feel for the people who live at that end who had no problem getting a space before the leisure centre came along .

[alice]

definition of 'affordable' 80% of market rents

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Great , more strain on schools , doctors and so on . Talk about cramming properties on every single piece of land in Dulwich.

[Penguin68]

Talk about cramming properties on every single piece of land in Dulwich.

The altermatives are (a) hit another borough, in the same way, but to the detriment of someone else; (b) build a new town on green belt, where there are curently NO schools, hospitals, doctors or jobs; © have a bit more rough sleeping or families in sub-standard and cramped accommodation (presumably as long as that's not in ED)

There is a shortage of housing in London - that drives up prices - and leaves many people in substandard accommodation, or having to pay more than they can afford. More people coming in will, inter alia, benefit local shop-keepers and those providing services locally, if they have cars, local garages. Better to live where others want to live than in places where nobody wants to be (much of post industrial Wales and the North, according to many accounts).

[unlurked]

Kim Humpheys you say? It's a done deal then. The council will take extra bunce,havd zero affordable housing, and build a rabbit hutch in north of borough for the working class. Pah.

[alice]

http://www.urban75.org/blog/elephant-and-castle-regeneration-outrage-2535-new-homes-and-just-79-social-rented-units

things worse in north of borough

[tfwsoll]

>>definition of 'affordable' 80% of market rents

Definition of Affordable Rent (under the Government's Affordable Rent Programme) is up to 80% of market rent equivalent but a lot of housing providers charge less, depending on the size of the property.

[mikeb]

Mick Mac asked for some more information on Crystal Palace Properties Limited. I've done a bit of digging. And I started this post by thinking it would be a straightforward case of a property development company with maybe one or two investments. But now (about two hours later), I've been through 16 group companies and property investments totalling maybe ?50m or more.

All of the information below is public and usually recorded as a consequence of maintaining limited liability of the investment vehicles. In the interest of balance, I would note that property development means disturbing vested interests and can result in unfair media reporting.

Crystal Palace Road Limited is part of the Trehaven Group Limited. Previous SPVs have been Chrisfys 1, 2, etc., although other group affiliates include partnerships like Old Kent Road LLP and Brixton Road LLP.

The constant factor in the wider property group is the involvement of the following five people as directors / shareholders

* Charles Allison (appears to live in Holland Park)

* Simon Bakewell http://www.astonrose.co.uk/news/newsdetail/simon-bakewell-appointed-as-chairman/171

* Philip Nelson

* William Woodward Fisher

* Rebecca McKinnon (as company secretary)

Also Magma Auditing LLP of Rugby.

Some history on these Messer Bakewell and Nelson here here

http://www.fasttrack.co.uk/fasttrack/leagues/dbDetails.asp?siteID=2&compID=416&yr=2000

And here

http://www.propertyweek.com/nelson-and-bakewell-company-collapses/3104748.article

Miss McKinnon, who is Company Secretary, is also company secretary of Kensal Properties Limited, which was recently in the Evening Standard

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/faked-emails-support-flats-plan-for-library-8829637.html

One of the more-frequently used trading names is Chrisfys Properties. There is plenty of public information available on Chrisfys and its subsidiaries. It mainly develops property in London and South-east e.g.

*. Houndslow http://www.forsters.co.uk/index.php?page=15&person=14

* Barking http://www.barkinganddagenhampost.co.uk/news/heritage/barking_magistrates_court_plans_raise_heritage_concerns_1_2236691

* Chelsea http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/rory-bremner-helps-defeat-plans-to-shoe-horn-new-house-into-green-sliver-in-chelsea-8941455.html

* Iver http://www.capitasymonds.co.uk/pdf/Notice%20Underlease.pdf

* Southend http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/792232.Millions_to_be_invested_in_Kursaal/

I note the attempt to renegotiate s106 agreement in Southend; times were tough in 2008 for leveraged property companies.

** edit Jan-15

Apologies, I can no longer find the article relating to s106 at Southend, not sure what happened there. Fortunately, it turns out Trehaven has sought to redevelop s106 agreements elsewhere and more recently - in Hounslow, Bedfont Pits - see point #53 here

http://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/(S(0jvmmq45oktuyd55cs22ct45))/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=581&MId=6891

End edit **

Digging further into the group, I note companies such as Edgehill Securities and Padmanor Investments, which seem to be largish companies in their own right. I also note income from film LLPs such as Howzat Media LLP and Big Screen Productions 20 LLP. Odd that a property development company would receive income from film production companies. I note recent legislation reducing tax relief on investment into film production companies.

So overall, I would note

* very experienced property development group

* not afraid of taking financial and planning risks

* adept at using limited liability to ring-fence development risk

* publicly-reported debate on their development tactics (often public reporting is a minor proportion of private speculation)

I'm sure Southwark Council is capable of handling these development proposals fairly and will appropriately weigh the intentions of the developer with the interests of local residents.

??edit some time later??

Also found some interesting news regarding the business carried on at the warehouse

http://www.southwarknews.co.uk/00,news,13417,5632,00.htm

Southwark news link stopped working, replacement here: http://www.xact.org.uk/investigation/news/art-13.html

[ontheedge]

Some irony there I guess (hope)

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

New, affordable homes good. Increased parking bad.

I must declare a NIMBY interest in this. Parking along Adys Road/C. Palace Road is already at a premium at different times of the day/week as a result of: two churches, one school, one playground & park, one leisure centre and several cafes/restaurants.

Perhaps the answer is insisting on underground parking as part of the development, like Altima Court.

[mikeb]

Trehaven normally seems to use Nicholas Taylor Associates as agent (see the Evening Standard link above for the Chelsea site). They must have thought Mr Humphries would be more appropriate for a site in Southwark. Some other local developers seem to agree.

* http://betterelephant.org/blog/2013/04/09/report-uncovers-corruption-at-the-elephant/