Residential Parking Zones in streets off LL

[mixulee]

I've had enough of not being able to park within 3 streets of my own house. I live on the street with the butchers and am getting fed up of having to drive 3 times around the block to try and park remotely near my front door. The final straw was getting some road rage from some cock in a blacked-out SUV for blocking the road for 2 minutes so that I could unload my sainsbury's shopping (never mind that if his car wasn't so wide he could have easily got past). If a Zizzi's does end up at Bell's it's just going to get even worse from 8am to 11pm Monday to Saturday. Surely everyone who lives off Northcross and LL is having the same issues ? If I have to pay ?70 a year so be it, and maybe that will stop people driving when they could walk/cycle/take the bus. Am amazed that the council haven't homed in on this money making opportunity ?

I don't want to endanger local trade so all I'm suggesting is parking restrictions at the worst time which is Saturday daytime. Is that such an extreme proposition ?

[Huguenot]

I'm with you mixulee!

[Bony Fido]

Southwark Council did suggest a "Controlled Parking Zone" in SE22 a few years ago, but there was a lot of opposition from locals and the scheme was dropped.

I think far more people would be receptive to the idea now though, especially those living close to ED rail station, as roads near there are just crammed with cars belonging to commuters from outlying areas every weekday.

The 37 bus route was forced to stop serving the station via Melbourne Grove because it's aways blocked by parked vehicles.

(By the way, I have no axe to grind on this as I haven't owned a car for nearly 4 years.)

[Huguenot]

Indeed you're right Fido, if I recall correctly the opposition was led by local traders (who felt it would impact local trade), as the residents hadn't organised themselves into a sufficiently sensible group to communicate their own needs and benefits.

Since local traders also opposed the bus lane from a trade perspective, and there is no evidence that the bus lane has been anything but beneficial, I hope that they will now be more amenable to a CPZ as it will lead to more committed customer visits to LL, longer dwell times on LL, with more shops visited and more dosh spent. It has had a massive benefit to the lanes in Brighton.

There are many myths about CPZs, particularly the tragic but plausible one that they are money spinning exercises for local councils. Most CPZs lose money, an ED one would probably also lose money. however I have no doubt the council would share their cost projections.

Parking could be provided at Sainsbury's and the pedestrian route down to LL widened and simplified. I'd recommend banning parking on LL and widening pavements all the way down.

[Damo]

Cue "horrendous" experiences from car drivers with other CPZ's, accusations of "stealth tax", the injustice of suspended bays, no guarantee of a space blah blah blah

There are too many cars around LL. If a CPZ means fewer cars, then I'm for it.

I personally find the sight of car clogged roads, both parked and moving, pretty depressing.

A car is a privilege, not a right.

[jim_the_chin]

how can a CPZ lose money?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Hmm I hope this doesn't degenerate into another cars v non-cars thread, even tho my tuppence worth is.. Cars can be great, you can do things you can't do otherwise etc but:

Mixulee your description sounds so like my life (in a previous lifetime - ie 10 years ago or so) but there are other ways and means of getting what you want without the hassle

The elements of your story give the clues - other drivers, Sainsbury's, same road as butchers

Now I don't know you but I live at the top end of LL so shopping for me means a hike down on my feet - I COULD drive if I wanted to by why would I want to. I envy your location.. same road as butchers! Why are you driving to Sainsbury's? You might have a very good reason or it might be just habit but if you don't want the hassles that go with driving (and any of us sat behind a wheel automatically think we are not "other drivers") - just wander down to the butchers, or SMB, or the Turkish veg shop opposite Black Cherry, or the one up NC Road and then wander back. job done

You also mention "you don't want to endanger local trade" - which is odd considering you drive past local trade to get to Sainsbury's a couple of hundred yards away...

As I say you may have a need to do this - but if we say 50% of the other drivers who needlessly drive up and down LL took a walk from time to time there would be no need for CPZs and you would have room to park where you like. But if you are choosing to do it because, and it is, a free world well so is everybody else with the attendant congestion that follows. You think it's bad now wait until another 10 thousand residents in the catchment area who are coming up to driving age buy cars... ad infinitum. So come on.... those of us who can leave they keys at home, let's

[Jeremy]

A lot of local shops aren't open on evenings or Sundays, which make them next to useless for many of us.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Tis true Jeremy but is the parking that bad off LL on a Sunday?

[nutty]

I think councils generally shoot themselves in the foot with planning for these on most occasions. My experience is that they do some kind of a survey which nobody hears about and then produce a plan which is completely wrong for the area in question and hence get residents backs up.

If there are problems at certain times in certain areas these could be addressed by a CPZ but there's always a danger that the "plan" is designed to make back the cost (and maybe more?) by extending CPZ hours into times they are not necessary.

Agreed we probably need:

* some CPZ between 8am and 10am on roads near the station to stop those who to drive to the station

* some CPZ Saturday daytime (9am-5pm) around LL shopping areas to stop clogging up etc (personal bias here as I live very close to LL and can never get a space on a Saturday)

I suspect the councils plan would end up having 8am-6pm restrictions across a very broad area around LL which would be wholly inappropriate but lets wait and see....

Also - "A car is a privilege, not a right." - come on?!? I don't think any of us believe we have a "right" to a car. The huge amounts of tax we already pay on road tax, petrol, tolls (increasing each year), insurance etc etc etc I think already keep it as a privilege for the majority.

[capt_birdseye]

Sean, sainsburys sell more than just meat and veg. If you're doing the weekly shop for a family of 4 it's a hell of a lot cheaper to do it at a big Supermarket, it's also a lot easier to drive there rather than walking there and back laden down with kids and shopping bags.

Sainsbury's also beats Somerfield for range of products as well as price, the butcher's is reasonably priced but SMB and the place on NC are not (?1 for an organic chilli?). As a neighbour of Mixulee I completely understand where he's coming from.

[swiders]

correct to a point on the local "traders" there Huguenot.

If my memory serves me correctly, it was one local "trader" (who pulled a whopping 2.38% in the 2000 mayoral elections) who lead what at times was a spiteful and can be argued political campaign against a small zone proposed around ED Station (to try and offset problems such as the one noted by Bony Fido). Despite the Borough working up a solution which in most parts would not have impacted on trade along the lane, it was never progressed. c'est la vie.

[Jasmina]

I'm with you all on this one. I live close to ED rail station and it's driving me crazy not being able to get a space in my own street. Residents have taken to leaving thier rubbish bins outside thier houses to try to keep thier space. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Has anyone contacted the council recently with regards to residental parking zones?

[Ant]

I don't want to sound too unsympathetic, but those spaces aren't theirs; they're everyone's. Blocking them with a bin may be tempting, but it's going too far.

[ratty]

If I saw a bin outside someones house to stop me parking I would wheel it back and park anyway. When will people understand that they pay for their houses and not the space on the road outside it?

As for me, I've got a driveway! I'm alright jack!

[louisiana]

I say

- widen the pavements on LL. Introduce some kind of traffic calming

- no parking on LL (shopping area)

- controlled parking elsewhere

The amount of nutty driving on and around LL makes it quite dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians. Crossing LL as a pedestrian is often 'your life in their hands'. Encourage pedestrians and cyclists by making it safer for them, and keep cars away from the shops, which may help to discourage the 'drive to the cornershop for the paper' brigade.

[Ko]

It would depend how wide the zone is. I live 5 minutes walk from the butchers (corner of Silvester and Landells) and I don't want people who can't park immediately off LL coming and clogging up my road. Might sound selfish, but the point I'm making is that the whole problem needs to be addressed rather than the council just pushing the problem elsewhere.

Last week we couldn't park anywhere near our house to unpack our huge 6-weekly grocery shop (only do a big supermarket shop every 6 weeks). I sympathise with the problem. If any zone was introduced, the council would have to do a proper job (and personally I don't have much faith in the council due to past experiences).

Mixulee - the area you live in (around Blackwater St, Melbourne Grove) has a large number of flats - both local authority flats and a number of the other houses are divided into flats from what I can see. The council should really do an audit of how many cars there are on particular roads - and how many spare spaces there really are after taking into account that residents do have visitors.

Alot of the problem is caused be families having more than 1 car and also by houses being divided into flats.

By the way Mixulee - I think if you can't park in front of your house, you are entitled to block the road for 2 minutes to unpack your shopping - others like the guy in the black SUV can wait!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Cptn Birdseye

Ooh I had a big reply all typed out but I've deleted it because I'm not trying to upset people. And I'm only trying to address the frustration felt by anyone in Mixulee's position not tell them what to do

I would say that a family of 4 can buy things, more regularly, and for overall cheaper and not drive. For the most part. Those things that can't be got, are more expensive, less convenient, more desirable- well - for me - if I weigh it all up it's not worth the hassle of dealing with all of the traffic just for them. I'll find a way of getting them

Anyone here I would wager could, if they wanted to, come up with at least 2 other ways of doing the same weekly shop with a similar budget So the question is why subject yourself to the frustrations of the road and parking issues?

For other people it may be that it just can't be done any other way, or they don't want to do it any other way which is fine as far as it goes but people will only get more frustrated.. with the best will in the world, with the best council in the world and the best planning/CPZ in the world it's still all going to get worse if everyone adopts the only way to cater for a family is to drive anywhere

The question surely is how do people think it's going to get solved by driving more - not a facetious question honestly. I'm genuinely curious as to how things will progress in 5, 10 , 15 years time

[Jeremy]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tis true Jeremy but is the parking that bad off LL

> on a Sunday?

not sure I understand your point, I was just putting forward a reason why people might not use local shops.

Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent. I have a solution to this problem: build a multi storey carpark on the police station site!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Jeremy

busy day such as saturday when parking is a nightmare - walk to local shops (if poss)

quiet day such as Sunday local shops closed but no strange cars parked out front of house

either way no parking hassles

The police station is arguably the onle building in britain that would be improved aesthetically by becoming a car park but if said car park held, say... 500 cars.. upon which roads would that many extra vehicles drive?

[louisiana]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Cptn Birdseye

>

> Ooh I had a big reply all typed out but I've

> deleted it because I'm not trying to upset people.

> And I'm only trying to address the frustration

> felt by anyone in Mixulee's position not tell them

> what to do

>

> I would say that a family of 4 can buy things,

> more regularly, and for overall cheaper and not

> drive. For the most part. Those things that can't

> be got, are more expensive, less convenient, more

> desirable- well - for me - if I weigh it all up

> it's not worth the hassle of dealing with all of

> the traffic just for them. I'll find a way of

> getting them

>

> Anyone here I would wager could, if they wanted

> to, come up with at least 2 other ways of doing

> the same weekly shop with a similar budget So the

> question is why subject yourself to the

> frustrations of the road and parking issues?

I do mine with Ocado, once per 4 weeks. (Tesco, Sainbury's etc. will do the same) I get a 'green slot' (that means they are already in my area delivering).

That means all the heavy/bulky stuff is out of the way, always, and I just have to worry about fresh things for some of the month. I'm one person, not a family of 4, but don't pay any delivery charges as it's over the threshold amount for free delivery.

Plus point for me is I never have to carry heavy shopping bags (I have a duff shoulder), and I never have to find a parking space. No stress! No supermarket aisles stuffed with dysfunctional people!

Plus point for my neighbours is I don't have a car parked outside 24/7, or clogging up LL at peak times.

Plus point for ED is that I use buses/bicycle/trains, and don't clog up the local arteries.

I'm starting to wonder why people without a car don't get a council tax rebate!

Minus point for me is that I'm risk of getting mashed into tiny pieces by '4x4 man' or 'white van man'.

Louisiana

[jim_the_chin]

i do think if they keep putting flashy restaurants and gifty shops in ED then we will need a car park - i'm with you on that one jeremy

[pauls]

The parking around LL is getting ridiculous. This will be the third/fourth year I have lived in ED and when I first moved in I could always park outside my house. Then, I had to park on my street or around the corner. But in the last few months, I'm finding that I can't park anywhere near my house, if at all. And this isn't just during peak times. Commuters, households with more than one car, houses being turned into flats and the forever stationary red transit with 'hire this van and driver for ?15' all play thier part in keeping the roads clogged.

The streets around LL desperately need a CPZ to put them back into some resonable order. I for one would be glad to pay a residental permit charge if I could have my road back.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Louisiana

Another plus is that should we bump into a fellow EDF'er (and exchange appropriate greeting you know the one) and fancy a cold drink we can do so!

B)

the problem with Ocado is everytime I see a van or read the name it just put's that song in my head... Aga do do do

[SeanMacGabhann]

Pauls

Join Louisiana and me for a beer. Dump the car - sell it in fact and with all that extra dosh you can get first round in..

:)-D