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messageGreendale development / DHFC
Posted by bels123 March 01, 09:24PM

Unfortunately I couldn’t attend the open day a few weeks ago, please could someone summarise what the plans are or provide a link if any detailed plans are now available? Any updates on timeline would also be appreciated.

Thanks

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by Clifton March 02, 09:23PM


messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by mikeb March 02, 10:33PM

Could someone more informed than me highlight the key changes vs previous plans? At the moment, I'm afraid I still fail to see why the Greendale site should be developed at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was march 06, 10:40pm by mikeb.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by bels123 March 02, 11:23PM

Thank for the link.

I’m concerned about the loss of the existing AstroTurf - this is much needed open space, well away from the traffic and much loved by many locals. More accessible too since the council put in the new pathways.

Am I right in thinking it’s Metropolitan Open Land?

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by creditwheredue March 03, 09:35AM

The Astro isn't, the area around it is.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by goldilocks March 06, 09:48PM

Does anyone who was at the drop in know if there are any more detailed plans than on this 'glossy leaflet' please?- its not easy to see exactly whats being proposed and whether any of the development will impinge on the MOL.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by BrandNewGuy March 07, 09:18AM

We won't know until the planning applications are made (one for the current ground's footprint and one for Green Dale). It seems that that will happen later than the developers hoped, as I believe several issues were raised at the first pre-application meeting between Southwark Council, the developers and DHFC which might take some time to address.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by goldilocks March 07, 09:35AM

Thank you!

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by AylwardS April 02, 07:14AM

Meadow are holding a second exhibition on 10 & 11 April from 4.30 - 7.30.

Doesn’t look to be much more detail, maybe slightly less housing. We need the planning application for any detail and all it says is it will go in after the exhibition.

Www.championhillproposals.com

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by Abe_froeman April 02, 11:54AM

There is quite a lot of detail here. 230 new houses is still a huge development.

[www.championhillproposals.com]

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by mikeb April 07, 09:53PM

Those are pretty cynical proposals. I do wish they would stop calling a path “a public realm” or “linear park”.

Why are we planning to give a property developer a windfall from rezoning public land? Southwark Council already did this in the 1990s when they last approved the redevelopment of DHFC’s ground, and a reduction in local green space. How many times do we need to do this? until there is none left?

By covenant, in the control of Southwark Council, the land for the ground can only be used for sporting and recreational purposes. I don’t even know why we are contemplating changing this. It only gives Meadow more hope that they will succeed. We may as well be discussing the redevelopment of Goose Green.

While we’re at it, St Francis’s Park - which is the main community improvement from the last redevelopment - just shows how cynical this whole business is. I can’t think of a less appealing local park, or one which is looked after with less love. Even Nunhead Green is now a more pleasant place to spend time.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by Abe_froeman April 08, 11:06AM

Who is responsible for the upkeep of St Francis Park?

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by Vik April 09, 08:00AM

Abe_froeman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who is responsible for the upkeep of St Francis
> Park?

Sainsburys.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by mikeb April 09, 08:31AM

I think Clause 9 of Sch 4 of the 1992 s106 deed says that the responsibility lies with Kings and Sainsbury's.

This is on numbered page 29 here: [drive.google.com], taken from here: [www.friendsofdkhwood.org]

The "Public Open Space" is St Francis's Park, as shown on the plan at the end.

But the point is a little wider than that: clause 3 sets out the obligations in respect of the park - shrubs, grassed areas, bins, fountains, statues (??). And yes the park has "shrubs" but only in the most basic sense - I think the whole park is covered by that ground hugging evergreen shrub. I can't believe the park represents the hopes and visions of the councillors at the time.

Does anyone believe Meadow will be less cynical?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 09, 08:31am by mikeb.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by Galileo April 09, 11:02AM

I tried last year to engage with Sainsburys about St Francis Park and they took ages to respond then said I should speak with the council. I need to respond to them and remind them it is their responsibility.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by rahrahrah April 14, 08:30PM

mikeb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those are pretty cynical proposals. I do wish they
> would stop calling a path “a public realm” or
> “linear park”.
>
> Why are we planning to give a property developer a
> windfall from rezoning public land? Southwark
> Council already did this in the 1990s when they
> last approved the redevelopment of DHFC’s ground,
> and a reduction in local green space. How many
> times do we need to do this? until there is none
> left?
>
> By covenant, in the control of Southwark Council,
> the land for the ground can only be used for
> sporting and recreational purposes. I don’t even
> know why we are contemplating changing this. It
> only gives Meadow more hope that they will
> succeed. We may as well be discussing the
> redevelopment of Goose Green.
>
> While we’re at it, St Francis’s Park - which is
> the main community improvement from the last
> redevelopment - just shows how cynical this whole
> business is. I can’t think of a less appealing
> local park, or one which is looked after with less
> love. Even Nunhead Green is now a more pleasant
> place to spend time.

This ^

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by Wanderer1 April 15, 09:54AM

I've only just searched on the Forum for this as it is something that concerns me (the state of St Francis Park and the proposed scheme at Dulwich Hamlet) and I'd been doing some - fruitless - chasing in my own over the last few months on with regards to St Francis Park. Therefore, it's made interesting reading. I totally endorse the points made by 'mikeb' about the cynical nature of the proposed public space provision in the Meadow planning application.

From my reading of things, this is a really good/ important time to be chasing the Council/ Sainsbury's (and potentially Meadow) on how the existing St Francis Park needs to be improved and to make sure that something similar doesn't happen with the new planning applications. In terms of where I've got to:

- I have been passed around by Sainsbury's customer services over the last months (Galileo - your post pretty much answers the question about who is responsible).

- I emailed the 2 local Councillors 2 weeks ago and haven't yet had a response to the below. I mentioned in it that I put a bid together (in 2018 for Southwark Council funding to improve the park that was unsuccessful):

St Francis Park (and the green fringes of Sainsbury's car park) have significant levels of litter, relatively few litter bins and are generally not very well maintained. Whilst the park is 'ok', it could be so much better and less of a glorified cut through to Sainsbury's. I've had an interest in this for a while but not done anything about it until I submitted a bid to the Cleaner Greener Safer Capital Programme 2019/20 (reference number is 1119251). This was unsuccessful.

From a bit of research I understand that the park is managed by Sainsbury's.

On this basis, I've just emailed Sainsbury's to ask them what they are doing. I think that there are some relatively simple things (e.g. a few new litter bins, actually shutting the park) as well as some things which are a bit more aspirational but would make significant improvement to the park. I went to the planning exhibition for the proposal for the Dulwich Hamlet stadium and asked the applicant whether they planned to fund improvements to the park as part of any Section 106 package; they did not have plans to do so.

A few questions which would be useful to understand if you know:
- Am I correct in thinking that this is not a Council run park?
- Is Meadow being pushed to improve the park as part of any applications (this would seem fair enough to me on the basis of this being the 2nd stab at reducing MOL given that the park was originally built for this purpose in the early 90s)?
-Any ideas/ thoughts you are pursing to improve the park.




Anyway - I thought that it would be useful to share this if others have also chased on this matter. I've just chased the Councillors and if I get no response will try and thing of some way to escalate it!!

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by TD April 17, 11:47AM

Last year I was in contact with Sainsburys and the contractor to sort out St Francis Park. I've emailed them again this year.

Marc was the person I liaised with last year.

Marc Romanucci
Regional Building Enviroment Manager
m: 07880037506| e: marc.romanucci@arcusfm.com | arcus.holdings

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by Wanderer1 April 17, 02:06PM

I got a call back from Louise at East Dulwich Sainsbury's yesterday who said that (as it sounds like others already knew) Sainsbury's full own and manage St Francis Park. She said that she was contacting the contractor they use for the park/ general litter etc (ground-control.co.uk). Maybe they have changed contractro from ARCUS FM since last year. The park/ sainsbury's land seems to have pretty light touch maintenance arrangements (every 6 weeks in winter and every 4 weeks in summer). She's supposed to be coming back to me in a few weeks with an update/ response to other questions that I put to her on what (if any) longer term improvements Sainsbury's would consider.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by TD April 17, 02:18PM

I just received this email from ARCUS FM

I was in contact yesterday with Ground Control as they have attended this week but not completed all tasks satisfactorily. The Account Manager is reviewing and arranging for re-attendance to bring the area up to the required standard.

Kind regards
Catherine Kanagarajah
Regional Building Environment Manager
m: 07584 582027 | e: catherine.kanagarajah@arcusfm.com | arcus.holdings

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by BrandNewGuy July 03, 11:03AM

The DHFC / Meadow planning application for a new stadium and housing is now online on Southwark's planning site, but it hasn't been validated yet, so there are no dates with regard to responses, decision deadlines etc:

[planning.southwark.gov.uk]

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by Abe_froeman July 03, 03:19PM

the seemingly extensive pre-application meetings with the council make me suspect that this application is a done deal.

And building 224 new homes without a single parking space between them is going to make residential car parking in the surrounding streets an absolute nightmare!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was july 03, 03:24pm by Abe_froeman.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by mikeb July 04, 11:29AM

@ Abe - do you have a link to these pre-application meetings?

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by Abe_froeman July 04, 11:44AM

Hi Mike, unfortunately not, but there is reference to it in the documents, eg in the car parking plan -

"As part of the consultation process that has been undertaken, a Southwark Borough Council Design Review
Panel (DRP) was held on 13th May 2019. This resulted in some design recommendations which were
subsequently given further consideration. "

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by andrewc July 07, 12:56PM

The new plan is build over the old pitch and use the metropolitan land.
Not much changes eh??

[www.championhillproposals.com]

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by yorksgirl July 07, 09:20PM

Sainsburys was built on what was at the time supposedly protected green space with public access to the whole space. How the Southwark councillors and officers swore on their very lives, at the time, that there would be no further loss of public space or access, ever. Grim to have to say this as a lifelong Labour voter but think open spaces locally were better protected under Lib Dems.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by andrewc July 07, 10:12PM

Where is the opposition to the use of public land in this plan?

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by first mate July 08, 07:17AM

In the consultation replies there is a letter from the local residents assn, presumably representing them, that states that the land is MOL and therefore cannot be built on.

If it is built on it sets precendent for more MOL to be lost in future.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 08, 07:17am by first mate.

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by mikeb July 08, 01:27PM

one of the arguments that the developers made last time was that Camberwell and southern Southwark have much more green space than other areas and so wouldn't miss this piece of encroachment

messageRe: Greendale development / DHFC
Posted by AylwardS July 09, 07:08AM

BrandNewGuy thanks for the link. Looks like they are more serious this time - three times as many documents but it took 4 consultations before the CPZ went in.

The documents will take some time to digest but the recent exhibition was better than the original application (apparently back in 2010), if not ideal.

In anticipation of this I’d been looking at some Council policies, the New Southwark plan has been submitted and is pretty good as these things go around protection for wildlife. There are a lot of documents on the application so in case it saves anyone some reading here is what I found that I thought may be relevant when the planning app came out.

The Southwark Open Space Strategy [www.southwark.gov.uk]

Dulwich Hamlet is designated Other Open Space OS130
Dog Kennel Hill , OS119 is a Site of Importance for Nature (SINC) and Metropolitan Open Land (MOL)
Greendale Playing Fields, OS128 is also a SINC and Metropolitan Open Land
Greendale AstroTurf, OS129 is MOL

Table 8 in Annex 5 relates to Cleaner, Greener, Safer (I think its in Annex 5 anyway, I made the note some time ago and its not as clear now)
56 Open Space - MOL
P58 Green Infrastructure
P59 Biodiversity
P60 Trees

I also see one of the documents is a Travel Plan and the impact on local transport was something I’d noted to look at. I’d noted sections in the New Southwark Plan and Draft London Plan that might be useful
New Southwark Plan - amended policy P9 Optimising Delivery of New Homes
- account of additional infrastructure needs - public transport, schools, NHS? Draft New LONDON Plan, D6 when determining density of development connectivity - walking an public transport and capacity of infrastructure to be considered

This may be a bit early but may help when the time comes to comment.

I’m also going to contact the Parks department and express support for Green Dale Fields now the access is better and in my comments on the application refer to using this more and how its developing. Will the development impact this? The Council saw the value and spent money to redevelop Green Dale Fields. How is the development compatible with their plans could be questions to ask

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