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messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by first mate May 15, 08:06AM

Lee Scoresby wrote.

< No-one is asking us, the local people and park users, what we think, of course not. Many will see hiving off to private interests as a betrayal in principle, and this particular money-spinning lark as crass and inappropriate. If Southwark really cannot get their act together to re-establish bowling the green should be returned to parkland. Southwark's secret intentions, of course, are exactly the opposite: they have the established goal of handing over major chunks of our park to the Harris Academy corporation. The bowling green is the thin end of a very wide wedge.>

Lee, do you have evidence that there are plans long-term to hand over chunks of park to Harris or is this a hunch? This is a genuine question and not intended to undermine your point - just curious?

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by Penguin68 May 15, 09:08AM

Lee, do you have evidence that there are plans long-term to hand over chunks of park to Harris or is this a hunch? This is a genuine question and not intended to undermine your point - just curious?

It's a real conundrum - Harris were clearly allowed to build their academy on the clear understanding that they would not then use the Rye as a sports etc. area for the school, and yet we know that having outdoor sports areas associated with schools is massively important for the long-term health and well-being of the pupils - sporting habits gained at school can be a positive influence over their lifetimes. So the pressures, outwith the assurances given at the time of build, to allow the Harris children to use the Rye are understandably large. It's a matter of competing 'greater goods' and I would not like to be the one to call it. But I believe, with Les, that there probably is a hidden agenda here (the councils and Harris' together or separately) - and I can't believe that Harris will not have organised sports on the Rye within the next 20 years. Whether the land is then alienated and becomes the school's, or whether Harris is just allowed to use, with others, existing facilities and space, is a mooter point.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by nxjen May 15, 09:27AM

ďWhether the land is then alienated and becomes the school's...Ē

Most unlikely to happen as the ownership of the Common and the Park is governed by all kinds of legal covenants. For the same reason, itís unlikely the reinstatement of Peckham Rye Lido and the larger associated scheme which is currently proposed, is unlikely to happen.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by first mate May 15, 09:30AM

I think a lot of us feel the same Penguin and there was lengthy discussion about this when Harris Boy's was first built and James Barber was Cllr. I was just wondering if Lee had more concrete information or some sort of inside knowledge?

Use of land to promote community health for all is one thing, privatising and limiting public access for profit- as per the imminent music festival- another.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 15, 09:33am by first mate.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by rahrahrah May 15, 10:39AM

They did privatise the house in the Southwest corner of the park though, so there is precedent.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by nxjen May 15, 11:01AM

I believe the house and its land was not included within the boundary of the park when it was formed at the end of 19th century when Homestall Farm was purchased by Camberwell Borough Council.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 15, 12:13pm by nxjen.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by first mate May 15, 12:27PM

rahrahrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They did privatise the house in the Southwest
> corner of the park though, so there is precedent.

I suspect small-scale measures, whether the music festival, park car parking, mini golf- all begin to create precedents for privatisation. What is initially intermittent use is slowly increased until the balance is tipped and then you have serious precedent.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by alice May 15, 12:42PM

The house was Originally put on sale with the proviso it should be for community use. There were some shenanigans which resulted in it being a private sale. £250000 Perhaps those with a better memory may recall

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by TrevED May 15, 02:31PM

Out of interest, does anyone know why there aren't any tennis courts on the Rye? or how one would go about enquiring about such things?

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by rahrahrah May 15, 03:48PM

alice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The house was Originally put on sale with the
> proviso it should be for community use. There were
> some shenanigans which resulted in it being a
> private sale. £250000 Perhaps those with a better
> memory may recall

This is my recollection - that there was some controversy at the time at it's privatisation. Not sure of the details though.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by EDOldie May 15, 04:42PM

Pugwash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember the mini golf by the lake in Dulwich
> Park.

I remember it well, was hoping they'd reinstate it when they did all that work there. Mind you if this doesn't put you off the plan for Peckham Rye I don't suppose anything will [www.minigolf.org.uk]

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by MrDude21 May 15, 10:41PM

Harris use Kings College Sports grounds in Brockley rise and have been doing so since 2010, almost 10 years! Iím pretty sure by now they have formed a very strong relationship with the local council/owners/university and have come up with a good agreement of using the grounds and at a good price, as far as I am aware Harris Boysí are probably the only school who use the grounds very regularly as they do a PE session in the morning for 2 hours and the afternoon for 2 hours five days a week, apart from that they use the sports hall and when students get to year 9 they do 40% theory towards their compulsory sports qualification, after all they are a sports academy.

Iím pretty sure Harris Federation would rather stick to this systems rather than working out the legal paperwork etc to facilitate the boys, also Iím sure the school staff do not want public, girls, dogs or traffic noise to be in the way of learning.
Another thing to add is some other Harris schools around London also use local sports grounds to facilitate PE lessons and they have done so for many years, as far as we know it probably is more cost affective and easier for them.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by Blah Blah May 16, 06:17AM

Never was the motto more relevant - if you don't want to lose it, use it.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by redjam May 16, 08:30AM

first mate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> At a weekend most of the park's open spaces are
> used for sport which entails lots of shouting and
> the popular park run means many of the paths are
> taken up by runners thudding and panting as they
> go round. Obviously it is great for collective
> health but it would also be nice to preserve some
> quiet spots, especially in a loud and noisy city.

Hmm, I'm not sure you're really cut out for city life, First Mate, if you get annoyed by the sound of people literally breathing in a public space.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by first mate May 17, 07:11PM

I didn't say it annoyed me I was making the point that while some people, quite rightly, will want to use the park for activities, some of which are noisy, others may want to visit the park to enjoy some quiet and 'commune' with nature. The hope is that both needs can be met.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by JennaAZ May 18, 08:37AM

If the Bowling isn't getting participation, then I think Mini Golf will be fun for many who will participate. Battersea (whilst slightly bigger) has had great success with theirs. The many times I've been, it's never been noisy everywhere in the park. The mini golf is near the play ground, as is Go Ape, and it's rather noisy there at peak-kid-times, but over by the fountain and nearly everywhere else, it's quiet. I think you'll find the same in The Rye with the trees buffering the noise and peace can be found pond-side as well as other places within the park.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by first mate May 18, 09:14AM

The site is adjacent to the Japanese garden and pavilion which many people use for quiet time. Mini golf may, as you say, be reasonably quiet- I guess I keep thinking crazy golf. There is also the matter of aesthetics, as per Ed Oldies post.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by JennaAZ May 18, 04:02PM

first mate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The site is adjacent to the Japanese garden and
> pavilion which many people use for quiet time.
> Mini golf may, as you say, be reasonably quiet- I
> guess I keep thinking crazy golf. There is also
> the matter of aesthetics, as per Ed Oldies post.

Ah, that is right first mate, as I don't go in the Japanese Garden (I'm always there with my dogs), I had forgotten about that. You're right, that is supposed to be somewhat of a serene and quiet area. But, again, I do think mostly quiet will be achieved a good chunk of the time with the unquiet times focused around peak-kid-times.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by tarafitness May 18, 09:41PM

Lee Scoresby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The chainsaws have been out, day after day; while
> some tree removals were clearly necessary, it
> seems that when they want a tree gone - to
> facility music events for example, or the parking
> of contractor vehicles - there is no tree in the
> park so healthy that 'dieback' could not be
> discovered in it, hohoho-hollow-ho. And without a
> huge bung from the National Lottery these bozos
> have not the slightest interest in, you know,
> actually PLANTING new trees. Rather, careful
> observers may have detected that a concerted,
> undeclared effort is underway to attenuate all
> areas of tree and other vegetation, evidently to
> allow continuous sightlines through the park from
> all angles, so as to faciliate policing (in the
> general sense). This vandalism completely undoes
> the thought and effort of many past generations to
> carefully enfold so very many private, beautiful
> spaces like an intricate puzzle within what is
> really not a large area. Again, did anyone ask us
> about this?
>
> And here's the doozy for locals and park lovers
> ... having concealed with grass-seeding their
> failure to repair the considerable, serious ground
> damage caused by last May's appalling (and
> 'commercially confidential' hoho) 'music event',
> Southwark is going to do it all over again at the
> end of this month. Watch and see the mayhem and
> squalor, the strutting security thugs, the
> noise-assault, the vegetated areas thick with
> fecal matter, the damage to the natural fabric of
> the park ...
>
>



Am I correct in thinking that the lovely huge tree that was used by my family - and numerous others with small children - to provide shade from the blazing sunshine at last year's festival, has now been cut down?! sad smiley

Was this at the request of the organisers? I really cannot see the justification.

messageRe: Mini Golf in Peckham Rye Park ... are they kidding?
Posted by first mate May 19, 07:14AM

Cllr Renata Hamvas will be able to answer all these questions.

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