mockney piers

You may have a point there annaj. Well, about the itch, not about the dullness; very interesting post. Arnica for itchiness, yes?

So Keef, Dexter, what did you think?

Manics in sense of humour shock! Wow.

And back to more sombre proceedings. It's always nice to get a decent journalist out there to look under the covers of the 5 O'Clock follies, and the results are even more surprising than I'd bargained for. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18722376/the_myth_of_the_surge

Ha ha, almost certainly.

I shall be on the soda, I have a 'marriage lesson' the next day :(

Ha hah. I love our little tussles you know The Prodigy - **** them and their law ;-)

whew, thought I'd lighten the mood with some good old scandinavian pop Go on, sing along. Jag sparar min tid, s? att jag kan spara p? dig saker du s?ger och g?r, dina skivor, b?cker, kl?der du burit antecknas av mig, allt arkiveras hos mig p? h?rda, sm? prydliga kort har stulit ett kartotek fr?n biblioteket s? ?r jag k?r eller bara galen? snart g?r jag s?nder, ?stersunder jag vill tro att det ?r n?got som bara h?nder h?r att nere i s?der n?gonstans kan jag fungera igen, kan jag gl?mma dig jag vet hur du g?r fr?n ditt jobb till bussen hem hur du f?ljer Thom?gr?nd och jag h?nger p? Domus, s? jag f?r se dig ingenting h?nder n?gonsin i ditt liv det ?r s? jag vill ha det jag vill f?lja dig, vill n?rma mig l?ngsamt.

Very honest post DC, which I appreciate and admire. For my two penneths I do believe that many of those in power are mediocre at best. They don't seem to be the most intelligent nor capable bunch. To trust a police force's recommendations after the excesses of the flying squad in the 70s/80s, with the results being the many miscarriages of justice that ensued, and more particularly a police force (that I hugely admire) that has no right to be above criticism following Forest Gate and Stockwell. Plus politicians don't seem to have much of a grasp on history which is absolutely vital especially if you're going to chuck your orb about the world. So I think we're more sleepwalking into a becoming a State whose values are becoming corrupted. I don't believe there's a nefarious conspiracy to take away our rights, but that doesn't mean to say the destination may differ. Evil is often banal, and the road to hell is, as they say, paved with good intentions. Hard fought freedoms seem to have been depressingly easily lost here where we take things for granted and are inclined to trust our leaders. In Spain* the first reaction of the bombs was to get rid of the government, and I find it rather depressing (as we've discussed before) that it barely figured in our subsequent election. I genuinely and strongly believe that we need a fundamental rethink of politics to attract the best people to serve the country. Those who currently work in Law, banking, art, education or wherever and have a real talent and vision, not just keep repeating the word vision. I have a pretty fundamental distrust and dim view of those who choose to go into politics (this is a broad brush, and of course there are good people). On the other side I see absolutely no evidence of an AQUK. So how then do we know 'their' intention of destroying western civilisation (which at any rate is unachievable form the outside). I no more believe the rhetoric of our demamgogues' 'they hate us for our freedom' than any muslim should believe an extremist preacher talking of a 'crusade against islam'. Mohammed Sidiq Kahn didn't offer random blind hatred aimed at the fall of the west, he had a pretty defined set of grievances, mostly to do with how our society is sitting pretty and had the luxury of not even considering Iraq or Afghanistan an election issue, while our troops and planes kill muslims*. The man was despicable, but some part of me can't help but feel he had a point, just as in the IRA campaign, afraid as I was of going to Harrods, that you know, they had a point. Blair dismissed it out of hand, and it must be nice to be so assured of ones one right and righteousness when it was pretty much his policies alone that took the country to an illegitimate war. I'm sorry to go on, especially when the thread was getting a bit lighter, but you know, I can't help myself ;) * who value freedom more, having living memories of that struggle, lost but ultimately won. Indeed I've had emotional meetings with my own family, my own grandfather being imprisoned for the crime of owning a newspaper. * and believe me, when a muslim trots out a party line like that, I'll talk about my experience in sarajevo, how grateful those I met were that our troops fed and supplied them at loss to their own lives, or the curious silence over Sudan where muslim militias kill christian civilians. My pedantry is equitable :)

"Ah yes....The days of gentlemen terrorists. We'll never see their likes again... let's take a moment to wish for their return" Brilliant :)

I'm not entirely sure what you are arguing for though David. Our current leaders actions are ok because Churchill wasn't all he was cracked up to be? Riiiiigght. We're in danger of getting into a mutual fisk (ewww) but so what if the majority of the attacks were in N. Ireland, they're still British Citizens and, well, people aren't they (oh, Omagh? Phew, for a moment I thought it mattered). Mainland attacks were often indiscriminate, even when aimed at 'legitimate' targets, and those coded warnings were often counterproductive (depending how you see it) and ended up causing more rather than less death and destruction. I don't believe the new threat is extraordinary somehow. I don't believe we need extra laws and I don't believe we need to live in fear (tanks at heathrow, I mean really). We need to keep debate free and open so as not to drive the disenfranchised into the arms of extremists, and ultimately we need to listen to them. Do you think we beat the IRA? No, nor do I, the fact that Martin McGuiness is the number two in N Ireland says it all really. Believe it or not we really do need to think about our foreign policy and it's effects much more than we need to think about 90 day detention or what constitutes torture or turning a blind eye to extraordinary rendition. British Empire may have been a cheap shot, but I thought it a justifiable response to a misunderstanding regards our First World War foe. And no, I don't think I'm being disingenuous. I really do think the Billions we spent on stupid wars are better invested in hospitals, education, road safety and the things that actually matter to our day to day domestic needs. *ooh, and I meant allergic reactions to painkillers and accidental ODs, not suicide. Paracetamol has some pretty nasty by-products you know. * but now I think about it, yes suicide, taboo and the second biggest killer of young men after cars. Today's news shows that we haven't the resources to cope with depression, so everyone's being prescribed drugs that may not really do the job. How about huge investment in mental health?

And I hope no one thinks I'm being blas?. Someone very close to me lost someone very close to them on that awful day in July. But you get on with things and trust the police to do the best they can without giving up ones fundamental beliefs. In the meantime if I really feared for my life I'd concentrate on looking both ways as I crossed the road, avoid sink estates at night, eat my 5 a day and cut down on my booze intake.

"They can be repealed at any time by any government. At the next election, vote LibDem. They voted against this legislation and it's not difficult to get rid of it." Come on DC, this is disingenuous and you know it. Labour seems to be showing no signs of wanting to do so, in fact are still bleating on about extending the period of detention. Conservatives are keeping shtum, and though I almost certainly will be voting liberal to get this legislation overturned, you know as well as I that they ain't going to win. So it would appear we're stuck with it. This being a democracy if the people demand it electorally it will happen, but thanks to a steady diet of war on terror guff fed to the Sun/Mail readers of the nation and lots of politics of fear, this ain't going to happen soon either. "if you believe that domestic terrorism is not a serious threat to the citizens of Britain then you are very mis-guided" (sorry, I'm fisking again) Quantify serious threat. Do I think there's a high chance that there will be more deaths, yes I do. Do I think those numbers will compare to threat to citizens of drinking, smoking, car use, old people facing hotter summers or unable to heat their homes in winter? Not even close. Probably more people will die from paracetomol usage. If our laws were good enough for facing the IRA (remember how we agonised over extension of detention without charge to 7 days, and how internment was the biggest propaganda gift we gave the IRA...do we learn nothing?) who were far better organised politically and militarily than our current threat, then why all this knee jerk legislation to the current crop of radicals? Do I believe that domestic terrorism is a threat to British society and our way of life? Not in the slightest except insofar as we've managed to rollback centuries of progress to gain our citizens rights to free us from tyranny of our rulers. Those easily spottable nazis managed to kill 50000 civilians with their bombs and yet we had Churchill saying that such threats must NEVER be an excuse to erode the rights of British citizens, so why should our modern leaders, these midgets of statesmanship feel they know better than he? And as a final aside, the swastika was only sported by the enemy in one world war, in the first one those filthy sausage eating Huns had the temerity to want an empire, imagine that, how evil of them, of course they needed to be stopped at all costs. Imagine if they wandered about the world suppressing rights to self determination, raping resources, killing the locals, putting them in concentration camps ... err. ... emmm.....like what we did.

It's not blocked by admin, it's built into the software, I'm guessing as a spam filter.

I have similar issue with 'MP' Sean. ... MacGabhann oi! no chatting!

I'm reminded of this piece of genius from The Day Today I think it's one of those weird things that it's more often left wing governments who go to war (US and UK) than right wing. No idea why, and couldn't speak for France; Germany I've an idea it's the other way. ---- Spot on GigGirl!!!

Nope nobody did. The opportunistic mobile snatch seems to be part of our urban fabric now, especially judging by the posters* that, if not quite ubiquitous, are certainly pretty commonplace in the suburbs. *that's those "put your phone away" wall posters, not forumite posters. Just thought I'd clarify.

No no, I'm totally with you. Just because something is unpleasant, doesn't mean it should be suppressed. Incitement is a tricky enough area, but, like cricketing umpires, we should give the benefit of the doubt as much as possible. Who was that chap who was a member of that radical islamist group, and then had a change of heart and became a whistleblower and now has death threats against him...I'll dig around. Aaaaanyway, he said that as distasteful as much of their rhetoric and discussion may be to the average punter, by setting up all these suppressive laws we're just driving their discussions underground where they cannot be challenged by more moderate voices, and he was very much for bringing this all into the open. Indeed by passing laws to target them, their we-are-the-victim-fight-the-power view becomes somewhat justified, lending extra credence and power to their message upon the dissaffected, influenceable* young'uns they target. *is that the word I'm looking for?

It is very unlike Dulwichmum to say OHMYGOD! after all ;)

I saw a phone snatch the other day in Brixton, woman holding it to her ear in a very snatchable fashion and the lad was cycling casually past and just took it, he didn't even speed off, just sort of moseyed. I wasn't convinced he even wanted it, he was just doing it because he probably felt it would have been wrong to look a gift horse in the mouth. Poor lady looked shocked so I give her a sympathetic smile and shrugged my shoulders in a way that hopefully said: "I've every sympathy, but really that was asking for it, you're in the middle of Brixton and you were practically holding it out for passing kids when not 5 metres away is a poster specifically telling you not to even bother using it in the area, sorry luv, do you need a pat on the back?". Though I'm not convinced she'd have elicited much more than "Tch, kids" out of it.

Keep calm Bellenden Belle...breathe.

soci-alist, specia-lism etc? anything with cia-lis in it will be blocked. Probably hardcoded into the software, a bit of a pain, but hyphenate yuor word in question and you should be ok

Ooh, Blimey, I remember this form the other night. Aah, has he been caught yet? *sharpens winkles pickers, casts furtive glances*

That scourge and enemy of Homeopathy Ben Goldacre, the man who's so biased in favour of "western medicine" once again points out the obvious, that science is about attempting to perfect objectivity. And when it doesn't do that, it's not important whether it's homeopathy quacks or the half a trillion dollar pharmaceuticals industry, it's still bad medicine