Marmora Man

Plus I believe Peckham Rose would give your man a high speed tourist trip around LOndon on the back of her high powered motorcycle - not sure of the charges tho'.

Cooking course - 2 days with Rick Stein in Padstow for a fortune or an evening in London for about ?50.00. Google search should find an affordable one. Day racing ferraris / flash cars at a race track - I think Virgin experience do this. Parachute jump Learn to fly fish (via Orvis website) on the River Test - a sublime day out, about ?75.00, and he may come home with trout for supper. Helo ride over London Just some thoughts

No government, no taxes, and a people's militia! Anarchy - not a good political model for anyone.

mockney piers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'd suggest that small government and strong > defence are mutually incompatible. MP - I wouldn't dissent too much from the argument that followed this statement - except that "strong defence" doesn't automatically translate into a large and costly standing military. The military problem at present is more about a complete failure of this government (and to be fair many previous governments) to match overseas "security" commitments, global aspirations and foreign policy to the real cost of maintaining a military force capable of sustaining the actions necessary to carry out the task. Low taxes & small government - still a sensible aspiration. Strong defence to protect our perimeter and overseas interests, but not engage in foolish military / political adventures is not necessarily that expensive.

Cobden said "Peace will come to earth when the people have more to do with each other and governments less" An early Libertarian thinker - I agree and my political policy is: "small government, low taxes, strong defence".

long memory Macroban

Maybe something for me, Keef, TLS, Mockney, ????, Gallinello, PROSouthwark and other usually opposed minds to agree on?? Walking to a meeting thru' Victoria Embankment Gardens at about 7.00pm this evening I watched couples, lovers, friends and groups sitting on rugs and benches sharing impromptu picnics. Businessmen with jackets off and ties hidden away were chatting over cans of lager and crisps, one group were sharing a bottle of champagne and the contents of a Waitrose bag, another had a few bottles of "Waggledance" beer and a rather smart proper picnic hamper and sandwiches. It looked idyllic and it made me happy. Then came authority - a man in a fluorescent jacket with Westminster Council logo who proceeded to tell everyone that drinking alcohol was forbidden and they had to throw it away or leave. Result - a lovely relaxing summer's evening becomes spoilt and confrontational. Why is there a need to ban alcohol? I can see the logic for banning unruly, noisy and bad behaviour, including drunkeness - but this wasn't the case. No sense of proportion, no common sense - a Nelsonian "blind eye" would have added much to the sum of human happiness. We should all promote the pleasures of al fresco drinking and flout authority when they try to impose silly restrictions. Concomitant with this right would be the responsibility not to become drunk, noisy and obnoxious.

MP - see final para of my post at 12.43. I cannot give you chapter & verse but there is an expectation that the enquiry should reveal, as you suspect, dissent & concern at the top. Depends upon who is called, to what extent the evidence is given in camera and the extent to which senior military staff are prepared to change the traditions of a life of service and contradict / criticise, in public, the government.

AD - recognised. MBA 101. I still contend that the market is "travel" not "trains". Trains are a particular subset - they meet some of your criteria, but not all. There are many, potential, buyers. There are fewer suppliers. They have high entry costs but low (relative) exit costs There is good information on prices, times and services (never ever gonig to be perfect) Firms aim to maximise profits - this they could do better if not burdened by state interference. Homogenous products - well they can all get you from A to B - which is pretty homogenous. Fruit & veg all supply food - but different varieties of food, the consumer decides whether they want carrots or aubergines today.

I'm proud to be an iPhone user. My tip - when typing double tap the Caps to make all typing in caps.

Yep - and most know exactly where it is and how to apply.

AD You choose an appropriate example. National Express has not been able to attract enough revenue paying customers to its line. You obviously object to the ?85.00 fare and it seems so do many others. As a result the East Coast Line business has failed - which is what happens in free markets. The government, being fond of intervention and having propped up a daft model** for private railways, will take it over. The traveling public would be better served if National Express had to find a buyer in a poor market - then a capitalist predator could buy it up cheap and, from that low cost base, set about delivering a more cost effective service, unburdened by high debt and a contract to pay huge chunks of money to government. National Express will also soon be free to set up a coach line offering, say, ?5.00 fares. If more people value low prices over comfort and speed then the Government run East Coast line will continue to wither. ** The commercial failure of The East Coast Line and National Express was, at least, partly the function of the high cost they contracted to pay the Government for the franchise. If the government had negotiated, as requested, a lower franchise fee NE would still be in charge. Better still would have been to have held the franchise auction in a completely open market and not the government rigged market that prevailed three years ago.

Gallinello - I think you will find that Santerme and I have far more practical experience of the Official Secrets Act and what constitutes an offical secret. It is also true, and evidenced by centuries of experience, that no secret remains secret forever. The best kept "Top Secret" of recent times was the existence Ultra and the Bletchley Park decryption of Nazi and other signal traffic that used the Enigma machines - this stayed out of the public domain for nearly 40 years and concealed the true purpose of the General Communication Headquarters, Cheltenham until the mid 80's.

Alan Dale Wrote: Road (car, motorbike, bicycle, coach), air (scheduled airlines, private airlines, helicopter), canals, by foot. Hardly homogenous products are they? That's why it costs ?85. AD - you misunderstand the nature of the competition - the service you wanted was one that facilitated travel. The mode is irrelevant - all the examples I quoted will get an individual, or many individuals, from A to B. They do it in varying degrees of comfort, speed, convenience and cost - and therefore compete in the market of transport from A to B.

I would suggest that the BBC reported on the Armed Forces Day in an objective fashion. Local BBC reported on the 30,000 that turned out at Chatham to watch, meet and honour members of the Armed Forces. They carried out some vox pop interviews - all of which spoke about their support and pride for individual soldiers, sailors and airmen - a couple also deplored the fact that those servicemen had been sent, with inadequate equipment and resources, to fight wars on behalf of this government. Across the country similar events garnered similar support and comment. I have not met many, if any, people that share your view of Britain's armed forces as being "paid killers" - there is a legitimate argument to have about the political decisions to send servicemen to war, any war. It is however, important to remember that the individual servicemen are there to do the bidding of the democratically elected government. I also understand, and expect the forthcoming Iraq enquiry to reveal, that senior Defence Chiefs argued against many aspects of the Iraq invasion - not least the "weapons of mass destruction" basis and particularly the lack of a post invasion recovery / management plan. The British Army and supporting Royal Navy & Royal Air Forces have been damaged, as has the standing of UK on the world's political stage, by their involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan where a lack of resources has meant they could not and cannot play a full and professional part in the task.

SeanMacGabhann Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I tried this line of satire before - then quids > gave his harsh but fair rating and I never > bothered again Never mind Sean - your new "undercover" roles as PROSouthwark and Gallinello is coming along nicely. Only someone with a finely honed sense of irony and knowledge of left wing lunacies could crate such characters.

antijen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Keef you didnt say where the money comes from. It > doesnt change the fact, someone has a zimmer who > for whatever reason needed it, due to these people > doing what they are doing, as amusing as that may > seem to many posters. Antijen - Your arguments would be far more persuasive if you would write in grammatical English - it is impossible to understand what you are attempting to say in the above paragraph. Even John Prescott could do better.

mockney piers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Seriously my sister-in-law's best friend was > killed that day. She and her family didn't g&t > confirmation for over a week there was so little > left to find. > > I kindly suggest you take your delusional nonsense > and @#$%& off frankly. Tit!! > > Only Iiiiii have the truth, you are all > bliiiiiind. Ha ha, @#$%&!! MP: Seconded wholeheartedly. I was at Tavistock Square - the bus bomb went off outside my office and, with other staff, we helped tend the shocked and, some of us, move the dead to a temporary mortuary in BMA House. A sad day for for London, tho' the way in which everyone pulled together and the subsequent memorial service at BMA House on 21/7 (which itself was disturbed by another terrorist bombing - this time more incompetent) was moving even for me a confirmed atheist. As far as I'm concerned this thread is now a waste of time - it became so once PROSouthwark and others admitted to belief in a government conspiracy behind 7/7.

Alan Dale Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You need competition for effective price > discovery. > > Without hundreds of parallel tracks then we cannot > rely on true competition. What does that leave? Road (car,motorbike, bicycle, coach), air (scheduled airlines, private airlines, helicopter), canals, by foot.

Immaterial - where, outside of small family / tribal groupings, does this altruistic, cooperative, communitarian society exist. Most such idealistic societies devolve into a "Lord of the Flies" type of chaos over time. As a recipe for a new national / global society it has proved, time after time, as impossible to implement. Adam Smith had it right, see my post above.

A fully Socialist / Marxist society would lack an essential mechanism for efficient management of the economy. The success of an economy depends upon its ability to allocate scarce resources - goods, labour or capital. Failure to do this effectively will lead, quickly, to difficulties and shortages of some goods and over-production of others. In today?s market economy prices provide the necessary mechanism. A "State" that owns everything is essentially working in a "priceless" economy. In a market economy if a good becomes scarce (or is of a perceived higher quality) its price rises, if it is in oversupply (or is perceived to be of poor quality) its price falls. In a totally managed economy where everything is in public ownership these pricing signals are absent and have to be replaced by some form of centralist oversight that assesses the needs of the country, regions, industries and individuals. This inevitably creates anomalies of the sort that were routinely seen in the old USSR where the consumer had no mechanism by which to choose between competing goods - nor could the manufacturer assess any signals from their consumers, since there was no choice and non competition. Adam Smith?s ?invisible hand? has proved over time to be the most efficient method of delivering the necessary signals and mechanisms to deliver an effective economy. It forces people to think about what other people want. Smith identified two ways to obtain the co-operation of other people ? the first was to appeal to the benevolence and goodwill of others. Smith felt this lead to a quote ?servile and fawning? fashion which he found quote ?repulsive? ? he said it generally met with very limited success. The alternative was to appeal to people's self-interest. Quote: ?Man has almost constant occasion for the help of his brethren, and it is in vain for him to expect it from their benevolence only. He will be more likely to prevail if he can interest their self-love in his favour, and show them that it is for their own advantage to do for him what he requires of them. Whoever offers to another a bargain of any kind, proposes to do this. Give me what I want, and you shall have this which you want, is the meaning of every such offer; and it is the manner that we obtain from one another the far greater part of those good offices which we stand in need of. It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love?.

Just to add to santerme's and Macroban's posts. The entire rant from Gallinello is an edited version of a longer, somewhat one sided "history" from the "Socialist Appeal" website - Socialist Appeal is the youth wing of the Intermnational Marxist Tendency. Their programme includes the following demands: 1. For a socialist programme to solve the problems of working people. Labour must break with big business and Tory economic policies. 2. A national minimum wage of at least two-thirds of the average wage. ?8.00 an hour as a step toward this goal, with no exemptions. 3. Full employment! No redundancies. The right to a job or decent benefits. For a 32 hour week without loss of pay. No compulsory overtime. For voluntary retirement at 55 with a decent full pension for all. 4. No more sell offs. Reverse the Tories privatisation scandal. Renationalise all the privatised industries and utilities under democratic workers control and management. No compensation for the fat cats, only those in genuine need. 5.The repeal of all Tory anti-union laws. Full employment rights for all from day one. For the right to strike, the right to union representation and collective bargaining. 6. Election of all trade union officials with the right of recall. No official to receive more than the wage of a skilled worker. 7. Action to protect our environment. Only public ownership of the land, and major industries, petro-chemical enterprises, food companies, energy and transport, can form the basis of a genuine socialist approach to the environment. 8. A fully funded and fully comprehensive education system under local democratic control. Keep big business out of our schools and colleges. Free access for all to further and higher education. Scrap tuition fees. No to student loans. For a living grant for all over 16 in education or training. 9. The outlawing of all forms of discrimination. Equal pay for equal work. Invest in quality childcare facilities available to all. Scrap all racist immigration and asylum controls. Abolish the Criminal Justice Act. 10. The reversal of the Tories? cuts in the health service. Abolish private health care. For a National Health Service, free to all at the point of need, based on the nationalisation of the big drug companies that squeeze their profits out of the health of working people. 11. Trade unions must reclaim the Labour Party! Fight for Party democracy and socialist policies. For workers? MPs on workers? wages. 12. The abolition of the monarchy and the House of Lords. Full economic powers for the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly, enabling them to introduce socialist measures in the interests of working people. 13. No to sectarianism. For a Socialist United Ireland linked by a voluntary federation to a Socialist Britain. Break with the anarchy of the capitalist free market. Labour to immediately take over the ?commanding heights of the economy.? Nationalise the big monopolies, banks and financial institutions that dominate our lives. Compensation to be paid only on the basis of need. All nationalised enterprises to be run under workers control and management and integrated through a democratic socialist plan of production. 14. Socialist internationalism. No to the bosses European Union. Yes to a socialist united states of Europe, as part of a world socialist federation. Naturally there is no mention of how this Utopia is to be funded nor any recognition that the state they propose has no support from those they claim to represent and would, if implemented, bankruptb the country inside a year - if not sooner.

Galli, Still up to your old parlour tricks - changing the meaning of words when the clear sighted analysis of others points out your inconsistencies.

PROSouthwark - nice little bit of incitement to get people to look up your new blog / website. Apart from that your argument is incoherent, ungrammmatical and false.

MY card has also been compromised - but as a Visa card is mostly used to buy fuel and occasional meals around the ED area. Never been used in Sainsbury's.