thebestnameshavegone

Car ownership declines massively post 50/60 in London (TFL'S own data) These sound like Schodinger's old people -a demographic who are in a small minority being wheeled out to make convenient points.

Metallic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I know so many old people who are not > going to be able to move out and about locally > without their car and then having vast > diversions. As far as I can see every resident can still park near their home, drive away from their home and return to their home? There's such massive entitlement at play here.

Went through DV junction early this morning and noticed all of the planters had been vandalised. I'm hopeful One Dulwich with their well resourced cabal of digital astroturfers will be quick to condemn this kind of vandalism.

I can't ever fathom the resistance from the pro-motoring lobby to transport planners suggesting that people on foot or bikes might get priority, or that people maybe don't store their own private property on the roads. And these are emergency measures, taking place nationwide. That's why there was no lengthy consultation. We're in a pandemic, which is what prompted all of this stuff. If you ask people if they would mind awfully not driving their car somewhere, they tend to say no.

spider69 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Perhaps at some point the penny will drop and > people will say perhaps we should have left things > as they were because it worked and newcomers who > think they know it all have got it all wrong. > > Maybe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_bias

This is a great look, One Dulwich: https://twitter.com/simonstill/status/1285145475197423616

tiddles Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Also not help by children using the new car free > area as a playground - there are still bikes using > this as a highway so only a matter of time before > there is some sort of collision. Number of pedestrians killed by cyclists in 2017: 3 Number of pedestrians killed by cars: 470 I know which one I'll be losing sleep over

Hmmmm As recently as the 70s, the Netherlands was choked with traffic. Don't know how much you've cycled there, but tow paths are hardly the main feature of riding. There's tons of integrated infrastructure.I rode 200km across the Netherlands last year asking segregated cycle routes with barely a canal in sight. We'll get there, it's just that we have huge Conservatism locally from comparitively wealthy and privileged residents who can't imagine ever having to compromise their lifestyles for the environment.

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Spartacus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Mr chicken > My point was that walking or cycling isn't > practical simply because of things like > disability, age, needing to carry babies, needing > to go long distances, carry heavy or impractical > loads and so on (the list goes on and if I wanted > to walk or cycle all the time I would move to > Holland 😃) > These are all outliers in terms of what actually constitutes modal traffic share. All they did in Holland was decide that there should be plenty of much more appealing alternatives to making a trip by car and offer up lots of alternatives for active transport, they weren't crazy hippies or anarchists, they just realised life could be better. I love the bloke up there ^^ insisting families *need* to make trips by car. What we're dealing with are a bunch of highly priveliged people who can't imagine their lives being even slightly more inconvenient.

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Not everyone can manage their needs without a > car. > Anyone speaking for car owners, as if they?re > committing a misdemeanour by having a car, is > obviously biased and clearly naive. I think it's disingenuous to suggest people are saying get rid of them entirely. Like it or not, the next ten years are going to see far more severe measures brought in as climate change takes a greater hold - transport in cities and the ability to leave an 8ft hunk of metal wherever you like are going to alter significantly. I assume One Dulwich will still be leafletting furiously at this point, even as the Thames water rises over the chimney tops.

Transport for London's own analysis suggests that 41% of *all* trips in London are easily cycleable (less than 5 miles; no heavy load; traveler is under 64; traveler has no relevant disability). If the traffic's bothering you, don't forget you *are* the traffic. Walk or cycle.

"Ultimately, some of this is behavioural psychology - people don't like change and often have to be forced into doing things differently otherwise everyone just carries on as normal." Exactly this. One Dulwich and all the other leafletting groups of car drivers that have sprung up all profess to be mindful of environmental issues and air quality etc, just as long as nothing too inconvenient happens. Covid has caused a surge in driving overall (I'm currently looking out on a gridlocked nunhead lane) - the anecdata campaigners are providing about the 'failure' of these initiatives is an observation of increased traffic across the board.

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Does anyone know if there are any plans to reduce > traffic / pollution in ED (other than Melbourne > Grove being closed to through traffic). Anything > to improve Lordship Lane? This should hopefully be on the cards. These initiatives don't work in isolation, and unfortunately making the area better for active transport holistically is a chain of deeply-unsexy measures like kerb dropping, better pedestrian & cycle lane provision and overall traffic reduction. Unfortunately you have a huge status quo bias from drivers, who want everything to be exactly the same, with nothing to inconvenience them. Ideally following a lovely long, circular consultation. CPZ? No. Close a couple of streets to stop rat running? Absolutely not. Cue local NIMBYs in SUVs shouting themselves hoarse and getting leaflets printed, for essentially what is their right to drive 2km to the shops, for the modal part. There's over 36,000 deaths from air pollution a year in London, I'm not sure endlessly consulting on these things is working. Hopefully we'll see more action from the council soon to keep up momentum. This is pertinent: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/15/english-councils-backpedal-on-cycling-schemes-after-tory-backlash " Too many politicians are effectively mirrors for what their residents say, but there is a particular skew among people that respond to a consultation. ?Who has time to put pins in an online map? Who has time to read through 200 pages of documents? If you live in a wealthy area, you are used to raising your voice and having it heard.? Privilege wins out : /

This is just a small aspect of the much bigger crisis coming down the line in terms of climate change - this is an emergency and these are emergency measures. But yes, let's consult endlessly, plenty of time.

@EDAus I think the real issue here is more that there's too many people driving cars which is causing all the traffic.

Abe_froeman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The roads are absolute chaos again already this > morning. Have you walked through Dulwich at this time of day any time in the past 5+ years? that's normal. Where on earth are people actually driving, anyway?

They're being asked to implement these measures *specifically* via the ETRO process, by both the Mayor, and the DfT, as a way to enable active travel as a response to coronavirus. This is an emergency, and the appropriate tools are being used.

You need to start somewhere though. And unfortunately, there is an air quality crisis in London, and there are too many car journeys. Long consultations and hand-wringing aren't the way forward - better infrastructure comes from many, many small things over time with additive effect rather than massive initiatives that happen all at once. So, you close some junctions, install some lanes, drop some kerbs, and you keep doing it. It's deeply unsexy in terms of what you actually have to do. And people will moan about it, as they do all over the world. And yes, people will be unhappy as it's the status quo being changed, and people are averse to the status quo changing. What you have in this area particularly is highly-mobilised, university educated people who are very wedded to their cars, so not surprisingly, they are moaning about it loudly.

It sounds like a lovely anecdote, I look forward to seeing the data once the scheme has had a chance.

Went past earlier, looks fantastic. Hope this is the first of many.

Car parking is the lowest use of public space ever devised. Free car parking, doubly so.

This is what we have - it was actually bought from someone on here for about ?40. Decathlon still do them, I think. Best place to look for one new might be the one in Surrey Quays. https://www.decathlon.co.uk/btwin-child-bike-tow-trailer-yellow-grey-id_8209834.html To attach to the bike, you fit a small adaptor to the rear axle which is very inobtrusive, and the trailer fits to that. There's a 'failsafe' strap for extra security. If you wanted to come check it out to see how it works you'd be welcome, drop @monniemae a DM

dulwich2020 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don't understand why they don't just use their > own wifi at home? I've never thought to take > laptop out to a coffe shop. why? Surely > everything has Internet at home now days? You could save save ???? on pints of beer in the pub by simply getting drunk at home, on your own

Looking forward to it opening. A good pointer is to not get too caught up in stocking 'local' brews, but concentrate on quality instead. Brick, Clarence and Fredericks et al just don't punch at the same weight as the likes of Moor, Buxton etc just yet. Lots of places stocking them at the expense of decent brews because you know, local.