Frisco

"Life's too short" Which is why it's probably important to be able to read and understand signs. >:D<

"and you still didn't get it." Consider that cross-posting may have occurred, and I apologise for any misunderstanding caused by that.

"Frisco - I agree with you though - the more information that can be gathered; the better chance they have of really shaping a training programme to address current problems." Thank you, and your experience last night seems to demonstrate that. I think I'd adequately demonstrated in my postings early in this thread that I was looking forward to going there to try coley and eventually grilled sardines. I'd hoped to be able to give positive feedback here, if only to confound the naysayers who thought the place wasn't an asset to ED. I was quite disappointed when I wasn't able to do that, but I'm hopeful that our comments may make them review and improve their customer service, and, from the positive responses from the owners on this thread, it probably will have that effect.

"but that'll be something you picked up in your police days I suspect" Police days? I think you may be confused. Also, while you may not have been aiming at any individual, you're forgetting that I wasn't the only one to believe that you may have been doing that. There seems to be at least two people who were guilty of misunderstanding your clear posting about laying it on thicker and thicker.

SeanMacGabhann wrote: "Maybe if you hadn't said "only one way"" If I'm going to be quoted, then perhaps it could be done accurately. Cut and paste is your friend. *Bob* wrote: "Give it a go! It's one of those little things you can just chuck-in to help your postings read less like they've been auto-generated by a machine." Everyone on the EDF has their own style *Bob*, and it wouldn't do if everyone in ED displayed the same lame auto-generated sense of humour.

"I suspect we may have spied each other Frisco - because I indeed went in to try the Coley yesterday at about 9pm. It is rare for me to leave a place without ordering but both Mr BB and myself experienced such an overwhelming smell of dettol and bleach, that it would have been rather like eating in a freshly cleaned toilet" I suspect we may have done. I have to say that I didn't notice the smell, but perhaps that was because I was already in there when the cleaning started. If you are who I suspect you are, I did wonder what caused you to decide to suddenly leave. It hadn't occurred to me that you may have received an indifferent reception, but a couple of people did come in after you and may not have pick up that vibe, or perhaps just ignored it. "I am starting to feel quite sorry for the seacow now. I'm not saying I doubt what anyone is saying, but I do feel that because they have been so bloody good about the critisism, people just start laying it on thicker and thicker." As clearly evidenced, Keef, by your first posting on this thread of: "This is one place I'm not ashamed to say I don't like. I think it is poncey, overpriced and generally shite." [...] "This is one place I really really wouldn't shed any tears for if it went." You know Keef, you can get much thicker than those comments, and I'm not sure anyone writing them can be taken particularly seriously, or have much validity, especially if they can't seem to understand the difference between comments of that kind and constructive criticism. At least I went there to try it out for myself, as I indicated I would do, and gave honest and constructive feedback on that basis, rather than your stated condemnatory ill-wishes for the place. Also, unless you missed it, DanRigby said above that staff training is there next priority, and anyone undertaking that training would want to be able to identify existing problems that need correction. Customer feedback is one of the best ways of finding that out. They also appear to understand that there may be communication problems between serving staff and customers due to language issues, and hence they are getting someone, presumably a person with those skills, to work as front of house manager. He's also acknowledged the mistake on the specials board. So Keef, whatever beef you have against people giving honest and constructive feedback, I think the owners of of Sea Cow would be better advised to take note of the constructive observations of their paying customers, than to take heed of someone who's previously wished them down the pan.

"Err..." I really never understand the 'err' compulsion when posting, it's not a competition (or perhaps it really is for some).

"Perhaps there should be a First Class carriage on this route and then we could choose not to mix with the riff raff. I very occasionally go to London Bridge and always disinfect thoroughly after every journey." Did no one tell that that the sheep dip they make you go through is to protect the other passengers? ;-)

"(and if this is because they can only trade six hours on Sunday, why aren't they open till midnight on Saturday??)" That's presumably a commercial decision by Sainsburys, although all other supermarkets seems to stick to that time too (possibly due to not wishing to break ranks with other supermarkets and/or estimated demand), so this important (??) question might be best directed to Sainsburys. While you at it, perhaps you could ask why they don't open earlier than 8.30am on Mondays.

"When I said I wanted a new round of mushy peas as they were too runny" Fortunately, my minty mushy peas were just right, and possibly better than any others I've recently tasted. I think the issue for Sea Cow is that they have to make improvements uniformly, so that the service and everything about the shop lives up to the improved standard of the food. That would seem to be very important if they are to succeed in differentiating themselves from the rest, and even local 'chippy' competition in the ED area. The food suggests it may be possible for them to gain awards, but it's doubtful that these are given to venues only on the basis of the quality of their food. If the owners of Sea Cow are aiming to be a better than normal eat-in fish and chip experience, then they should ensure that it is, and that the service and surroundings live up to expectations, rather than detracting from the (lately resumed) good quality of their product.

"Should go by bus. Cheaper - and more likely to find a seat where you can sit and read in peace" It may be cheaper, but buses my understanding is that bus passengers are more likely to encounter the kind of behaviour described in the initial posting than passengers on trains.

"Best put the white gloves in to soak in readiness for your next inspection." No idea what you're on about, but at least my comments reflect my honest experience and are constructive. If it was humour, obviously you missed your chance when the original East Dulwich Comedy Club left town.

Only really one way at the moment. Train from ED to London Bridge; Northern Line to Bank; DLR to City Airport (possibly requiring a change).

"What I want to know is, why Sainsburys have a sign outside saying they're open twenty four hours, then underneath that it says the times they're ACTUALLY open - erm, not twenty four hours." They are open 24 hours from 8.30am on Mondays to 10pm on Saturdays, when they close due to not being able to trade on Sundays for longer than six hours. I don't have a problem with the sign saying that they're open 24 hours, but I do think that they should have a clear and brightly lit sign on their gates stating that they are closed. In my view, this could prevent the incidents that happen at their front door when people (the ones who can't or don't understand the signs of the road) try to get in after the shop has closed.

Well, I went to Sea Cow tonight in the hope of trying their coley, so here's some honest, and almost instant, customer feedback. I asked for coley, but was told that it wasn't available, but the other fish listed on the specials board was. Both of the specials, unless my eyesight is worse that I imagined, seemed to be marked on the specials chalk board as costing ?4. Also, in my experience, most restaurants rub out or strike through a special when it's finished for the day. When I was told that the coley wasn't available but that the other fish on the special board was, I ordered that. However, I hadn't noticed that this fish came with salad rather than chips and that fact wasn't brought to my attention. When I asked what it was, I was just told that it was another white fish. I have to say that the fish and salad were very good, but I'd gone in for fish and chips, so I ordered a portion of chips as soon as I realised the alternative didn't come with chips. When they came they were very good chips, but they did take quite a bit longer than the four minutes the waitress had advised me they would take. I wondered if there was a language difficulty for the waitress, and that or that she assumed that I would just have realised that the other fish on the special board came with salad. The problem was that I'd selected coley and assumed that it was available because it was showing on the board, and that I was just being offered a different fish rather than an alternative dish. If that had been made clear, I probably would have chosen cod or hake. I was also a bit disappointed that, when I pointed out that the glass I'd just poured a bottle of sparkling water into had a chipped rim, I simply received a 'yes' from the waitress. It may have been a language thing, but while she did immediately replace both the glass, which was full of the water I'd just poured out, and gave me a new bottle of mineral water, she did so without any apology. She also made sure that she took away the first bottle, which had all of an inch of mineral water remaining in it, possibly just so that I didn't gain any advantage from having returned a chipped glass. Whether it was intentional or not, I felt as though I had pointed out something that shouldn't have been of concern. While the food I had at Sea Cow was very good, my other relevant observations are: My table had clearly not been cleaned since it had last been used, and I don't believe that, given that they still had crumbs on them and curled corners, the paper place mats had been changed between customers. Also, from where the front of the frying range looked very smeared, and while it may have been perfectly clean, this didn't give the impression of attention having been paid to the kind of detail that customers sitting at the three tables nearest the front would notice. My final point is of cost. As I pointed out above, unless I am mistaken, both specials on the board were marked as being ?4. Having sat waiting at my table for someone to look over so that I cold ask for the bill I got up and went to the till. The bill I was given was: 1 SPECIAL ?9.00 1 MINTY MUSHY PEA ?2.00 1 CHIPS ?1.50 1 SPARKLING WATER ?1.50 --------------------------- SUBTOTAL ?14.00 ------ TOTAL ?14.00 Thank You Service not included (needless to say, I didn't leave any) _________________________________________________________________ If you're wondering why I didn't raise this at the time, I initially assumed that I'd been wrong but I did take a good look at the specials board as I was leaving. I also guess that I fell into the usual English trap of not wishing to have any confrontation, which, in my experience, goes alongside a 'once bitten, twice shy' attitude to ever returning to a venue. I should also explain that, besides, as stated earlier in the thread, wanting to try coley, I was doing a 'reccy' as I'm having one or two guests staying over the next couple of weekends, I was checking if Sea Cow would be a good place to take them. As I hope my other postings indicate, I went in hoping to be able to give positive feedback, but apart from the quality of the food, my experience wasn't that positive, especially as I'm left feeling confused about the bill.

I want then to start serving organic mechanically recovered saveloys, and I won't be eating there until they do! >:D

I also meant to write that I've never seen the person concerned on the 7.03 from ED to London Bridge, but repeated brutish aggression is something that should be brought to the attention of the Transport Police. to allow them the opportunity to monitor the situation, to determine if there's a risk of violence and to decide whether action is required.

"I think you will have to factor, how many different types of fish you consider having when ordering your fish & chips, in there somewhere" Or whether they shun the fish altogether, and demand the mechanically recovered meat delicacy called 'a saveloy'. "If anything, I suspect we're more acutely aware of it in East Dulwich, where we sit in increasingly affluent gift-shop splendour, cheek by jowl with the largely less well-off Peckham." I'm not anymore aware of class in ED than anywhere else, and 'chav' isn't a word I often use. However, in my view, it's simplistic to compare the term with racism. As has already been said, the terms 'working class' and 'chav' are not interchangeable, but people often mistakenly and misguidedly assume they are. Those I've referred to as chavs have tended to be the people who have no respect for anyone or anything, and who make no secret of their unrepentant pride in having that approach and mindset, and people like this can come from any socio-economic grouping. In my opinion chavs are not representative of everyone who could be described or referred to as 'working class', which most of us who work for a living happen to be.

I went into Somerfield today for the first time for about a year. The items I bought were very expensive (a third more) compared to Sainsburys, but I needed them there and then and couldn't be bothered to go to Sainsburys as I was going in the opposite direction. I don't like the store, but at least they now done away with all of those self-checkout machines which never seemed to be switched on.

Amelie wrote: "oysters used to be poor people's food in the Middle Ages" Actually they were working people's fare much later than that, and there were oyster houses in London throughout the 19th century and they were a relatively cheap product into the 1930s. They're not really incredibly expensive now, or if they are I'm apparently much richer than I thought. I recommend you try the oyster stall in East Dulwich Warehouse. DanRigby wrote: "I am getting in some Sardine fillets to try as starter option next week." Grilled sardines would be a very healthy starter, so you might think of marketing them in that way. I'll definitely try them when I come in.

I quite like coley, so I'll definitely be in to try coley and chips. I've not been in to Sea Cow before (just never got round to it), so I'll be able to given you some 'newcomer' feedback when I do.

"they're all posting on the forum" You beat me to it.

"It was just a bit shit - with potential." Some think it still is!

Getting the car from the road to the area in front of their shop would be an offence, and they certainly wouldn't be able legally to use the dropped kerb outside EDT (at the crossing) for that purpose, as this would require them to drive along the pavement to get the vehicle to their property. I always thought that a licence was required to sell secondhand cars, particularly from retail premises. Surely it's also a change of use. If so, it makes Cafe Nero's planning infringement seem quite minor.

"Not a snob at all then are we Frisco?" Snobbish not to want to eat in places where people can't or don't behave properly, or are aggressive? You may need to look up the meaning of the word 'snob', and stop being silly Sean. As it happens, I'm either a snob nor an inverted one, and both kinds annoy me with regards to ED.