civilservant

it's sold to men mainly as an aid against excessive perspiration thoguh of course they may also get it injected into their faces

er, woodrot, I think it was a cat-erpillar...

thanks for clarifying, budur!

Mandeer - an Indian veggie wholefood place that served some of the best samosas in London in a basement on Hanway Street The Photographer's Gallery tearooms Liberty, before its make-over, with its gloriously shabby chic, when it sold things that were actually affordable All gone and greatly missed

The Indian YMCA canteen

Don't forget to leave some for birds and little beasts - they need to get their winter fat on, and if the pickings are already slim, they will go hungry.

Thanks for the feedback KK Nice to know its as good and as unaffected as ever - 'tho prices are a bit steeper than they used to be!

Minder, it sounds like budur's child doesn't have the option. I know that one of the improvements at Goose Green for example was building a kitcehn so that children could have a hot meal at lunchtime, so wonder why her child's school doesn't have a kitchen. I used to take sandwiches to school myslef, and used to wish that we had had a hot meal option. I'm lucky enough to have a work canteen and prefer the hot soup at lunch now! And I insist that my daughter has a hot lunch at school too, although packed lunches seem to be the 'in' thing. But maybe when she grows up, she'll prefer to have sandwiches at work because she couldn't have them at school! Anyway, its terrible about your child going hungry - poor plannign at the school, clearly, and I hope that they took steps to sort it out. I would have been very cross about it.

Saffron, we cross-posted! I haven't got a problem with lotions and potions - although most of them don't work. I do have a problem with people seeking invasive interventions, because they are puttign themselves at such high risk and very often doing so unthinkingly. The cheap implants scandal just brought this whole issue out so clearly - the cosmetic surgery industry, like the tobacco industry and the food or drink industry, is based on fundamentally unethical marketing and persuasion techniques, and people with poor self image or other problems just buy into the fake reassurance they peddle. I'm not trying to set myself up as Michael Moore, but I feel very strongly about people trying to use the Forum to sell snake oil. We've already had a debate about the ethics of using the Forum to sell puppies. This is more of the same. I am now going to shut up and get back to work and let the blokes put the 'demand for Botox' idiocy into context on the Lounge thread. I did laugh!

DG2, I did point out that the NHS DOES treat everyone who turns up. But remember that there is a finite pot of resource, so that time and money spent on treating a Botox victim in A&E is time and money that won't be spent on you or your child. I also added that prevention is increasingly important: the thinking is that if you deal with the problem at its source, you won't incur the increased cost of treatment etc. later. Hence the anti-smoking and anti-obesity campaigns. Obviously, Botox-(ab)use is not on the same scale, but is part of the same problem. To me, people who condone or promote Botox are no different to those who condone or promote smoking. Of course addiction and Botox are not the same thing, but they are not 'very separate issues' either.

That's terrible - doesn't your daughter's school have a kitchen to provide them with hot food, budur? This should be something that you can take up with the council, given that Southwark now has a free healthy meals policy for all children up to Year 4 I know from experience that there's a lot of peer pressure on children to take packed lunches in - but I just don't understand how sandwiches can be seen as desirable (with the exception of Scruffy Mummy's of course!)

I don't get your point, Saffron What would a chronic alcoholic who smoked etc. be treated for? They would be treated for the same ailments that anyone else would be treated for, e.g. liver failure, heart disease, just that their risk factors for these would be higher. As you say, this is the NHS's 'foundational remit'. And in fact, if someone had an allergic reaction to Botox, they would get treated on the NHS, just like anyone else with an allergic reaction, as part of the same remit. But the chronic alcoholic/smoker/addict also gets public health messages with their treatment as well as interventions designed to help them change their ways. And there is loads of evidence that addiction (to food, alcohol, tobacco) is associated with deeper psychological problems, which are also - and correctly, in my view - treatable on the NHS. So does a Botox devotee fall into the same group? Are you suggesting that their devotion to appearance is symptomatic of psychological malaise?

has the dog stopped howling?

Lochie, no need to apologise for saying what you think. I agree with you. Botox is a highly toxic chemical - derived from the botulin toxin, which is a very potent poison - and needs to be used with care, and under proper medical supervision. Just because toxic chemicals are used for pharmaceutical purposes doesn't mean that they are 'safe' to use. I don't think that the people who use botox so casually appreciate the risks that they are taking. The thought of a 'botox party' makes my skin crawl. Having said that, if people want to botox/liposuction/get breast implants, then fine. So long as they don't then expect the public purse to sort them out if things go wrong - the public purse has enough to do sorting out the consequences of people who eat/drink/smoke too much. And no, I don't do fake tan, I don't do hair dye, and I don't do makeup, but I did have a tooth fixed after the dentist advised me to. I'm not sure why I've bothered to take up the anti-botox cudgels, but feel that someone has to. Anyway, it looks like I'm an endangered species in ED. I'll just think of all the time and money I save through not 'looking after' myself!

very pleased to know it's still going - but don't all rush at once! http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g186338-d734172-r127356443-Indian_YMCA-London_England.html

I used to go there a lot about 15 years ago when I was a student round about there. Its main customer base was/is the (mostly Indian) students staying at the Y, so it's authentically Indian eating-house, but not Indian home-cooking. I'd really like to know if it's still as delicious value for money.

Don't forget the fare-dodger pigeons! http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/pigeons-tube.html

emc's not smug, just sad, she protests too much. She's doing it to herself, it's her face after all But if she then wants the NHS to put things right for free if it goes wrong, I will have a HUGE problem with her. And I've already got a problem with the ethics of her GP friends. edited to add: Saffron's quite right about therapeutic uses of botox, but there seems also to be some interesting new research about the impact of Botox on human cognition. Basically, facial muscle paralysis impairs cognition. I've lifted from Wikipedia - Botox hinders the ability to understand language. According to the lead researcher in this study, 'botox causes a kind of mild, temporary, cognitive blindness to information in the world, social information about the emotions of other people.' So botox may not be the best tool for emc to have in her husband-hunting arsenal.

You're perfectly within your rights to try to earn a bit of cash - and if someone really wants botox badly, they'll find it - but you might want to reflect on how you're planning to do it. You stepped onto an escalator with your first botox injection. Will you ever be able to say 'that's enough', and step off again? I don't hold out much hope, given that once a line's shown its pesky self, its friends just can't stay away. Like it or not, sooner or later your forehead's going to be more frozen than 'fresh-faced'! (I was going to post a picture of the Bride of Wildenstein as a kind of object lesson, but chickened out)

You're quite right to be concerned. This poor beast may have been suffering in this way for a while - see http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,951779,951779#msg-951779

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I struggled with Parade's End and gave up after > not very far in. > > Found it somewhat turgid and wanted to slap the > protaganist. Is it worth persevering with? > > Haven't seen the TV series so no preconceptions. In a word, yes The protagonist is a kind of holy fool, so eminently slappable. (Haven't bothered with the TV series either)

Thank God that the stretch from the police station to the library is unaffected. Clearly we need to act now to keep this under control, susancarpenter - what do you suggest we do?

Cheap botox parties! What else could we do to improve our dismal and wrinkly ED lives? Primary school proms, maybe?

exactly what I've been wondering, alice

I've seen them tending the Goose Green roundabout and the Dog Kennel Hill plants - council gardeners, I mean.