henryb

edhistory Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Is a "pavement casualty" included in the "road > casualty" statistics? > > John K Yes they are. Also included are pederestians who are killed by car drivers on the pavement which is about 20 a year. Here is a recent one in London - father killed in front of his son. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/father-killed-and-nineyearold-son-hurt-when-car-mounts-pavement-yards-from-upminster-school-8713187.html

I believe the guideline to the police from the Home Office is to use discrection. "The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

It should be a 20 mph limit along there. The frequency and severity of these accidents would be reduced. Hope the man is ok.

2/10 - back to troll school for you.

I couldn't have put this better myself. "Care and courtesy" are concepts that, sadly, many pedestrians ignore when dealing with cyclists - those same pedestrians then complain vociferously when they are treated badly by motorists. Methinks a case of double standards on their part. There fixed your post for you.

I would like to see a default 20 limit across London. The conflicts between cars and cycles are much reduced if they are going similar speeds. You only really need cycle paths on 30mph+ roads. Also I don't see why local councils can't take over the responsibility for enforcing speed limit from the police. If speeding infractions were dealt with, with the same vigour that parking violations are then there would a lot less speeders out there - especially in 20 zones. Give speed guns to traffic wardens.

Interesting article about cycling on the pavement in Japan. http://cyclelondoncity.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/cycling-in-japans-cities-japan-has.html

This morning on my commute I saw around 20 cars speeding, another 30 over taking too closely, one car driver deliberately try to run a cyclist off the road. Just a usual day.

titch juicy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I was beginning to think I was the only sanity > without a death wish :-) I don't think anyone was saying that cyclists don't have responsibility for their own safety or that the dangers of cycling in blind spots shouldn't be better communicated. The problem with your view is doesn't seem to take account of the fact that cyclists already are the safest road users in terms in of being at fault in collisions. And secondly it is blaming the victim. Can you imagine if - every single time they was discussion about a rape someone would pipe up that women need to take more responsibility for their safety and not wear such provocative clothes and nothing more needs until that happens? Or that every single time there was discussion about a teenager dying in a knife attack someone would pipe up that teenagers need to take more responsibility for their safety and wear stab jacket and not go out at night and the police shouldn?t do anything until that happens? Can imagine how offensive that would be to the victims family and how frustrating it would be to anyone wanting to make the streets safer?

Again that would have also been the fault of the driver. What if it had been a fast running jogger? What do you propose we do about these drivers who don't know the rules when pulling out of side roads?

------------------------------------------------------- > Driving lessons teach motorists that driving > defensively is safe. Most motorists stick to this. 85% of cyclists also have a driving licence. And how does fit with your view? Is it just the 15% you are complaining about or is it that your statement clearly indicates you have a bigoted and prejudiced view of cyclists and the risks they pose to others. On average 50% of car drivers break the speed limit on 30mph zones much more in 20mph zones. What do you propose we do about them?

> Find me a single example of a long vehicle driver > successfully prosecuted for killing a cyclist > simply for not seeing them in their blind spot. Yes you are right - most escape justice. It is a disgrace and these people need to be locked up or at least get life bans. http://lydall.standard.co.uk/2012/06/another-hgv-driver-in-cyclist-death-crash-escapes-prosecution.html

titch juicy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Your post is so full of inaccuracies and emotional > language that it renders it completely redundant. > > > How are the motorists breaking the law? If a > cyclist rides up the inside of a long vehicle > turning left with a blind spot, how is the > motorist breaking the law? How can a lorry driver > avoid hitting something they can't see? If you can't see where you are going and you hit something - you are driving without due care and attention and you are breaking the law. It is very likely you will get prosecuted. If you kill someone - it will be your fault. Saying "I couldn't see" - is NOT an excuse. I really don't understand why so many drivers don't understand this. > But, now you mention it, the thousands of cyclists that zoom theough red lights every day are breaking the law. Yes but not as many as car drivers breaking the speed limit, stopping in ASZs, over taking too closely. And the big difference is when cyclists do they are mostly putting themselves at danger not other people.

Louisa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm so glad the only thing I really care about is > class, wine and Iceland. Some people need to take > a chill pill. > > Louisa. Are you prepared to say that to the bereaved families of these accidents? These are not ordinary deaths - they are violent, sudden and often young lives are cut short. The financial and emotional cost to both the family and wider society are huge. Slightly more important than whether there are more middle class people eating salmon in your area or not. I would say.

That is like blaming rape victims for wearing short skirts. If you have any evidence that cyclists killed by HGVs were breaking the law then let's see it. The reality of it is that law abiding people who are choosing get about in a legal, safe way are being killed by people breaking the law.

I have a drive and a car. I am just sick of car drivers doing stupid things then blaming the person they hit. As a pedestrian I am sick of car drivers who don't know when they have to give way. When pulling out of a drive or side road whether you are going over a pavement or not you have to give way to everything on the pavement or the road. It is in the the highway code why so many car drivers ignore it - I don't know.

> Widespread killing of people sounds like there is natural born killer on a bike going round wiping people out. That wasn't my intention. > Now if you want to talking about widespread killing then there are around 29,000 early deaths each year in the UK due to > poor air quality, mainly due to emissions from diesel vehicles. That is of course a rather simplistic statistic, but > still sobering. Yes we live in one of the most polluted cities in Europe yet very little is being done about it.

PeckhamRose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > And how many cyclists and pedestrians were on > their mobiles at the time. Can we just stop always > blaming just one or two sections of the road > users? We should focus our attention on the people who cause the most harm to others. That is true on the roads as it is anywhere else. When there is widespread killing of people who are not breaking the law and just going about their daily business in a city - then something needs to be done.

Westminster council found that 60% of collisions between cyclists and pedestrians were the fault of the pedestrian. As the injury rate in such a collision is pretty much equal, pedestrians pose a bigger threat to cyclists than cyclists do to pedestrians. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/drivers-to-blame-for-twothirds-of-bicycle-collisions-in-westminster-8602166.html

So of the 77 pedestrians killed in London last year how many were killed by cyclists on the pavement?

I accept it annoying when people cut you up. I don't accept that cyclist do it anymore than any other group of road users. Cyclist as a group are the safest road users and are at fault in only a minority of the accidents they are involved in and when they are it is normally them that gets injured. This is not the case with car drivers who kill and serious injure thousands every year. Yes their are idiot cyclists as the idiot drivers and idiot pedestrians but biggest problem from road safety point view and by a very large margin is bad driving and bad road design, not bad cycling.

It would be interesting to hear her side of the story. But yes sounds like you were cut up by a cyclist. Hardly something unique to cyclists in central London. Would you be complaining if a car had done the same thing?

He pulled out in front of the cyclists and the cyclists hit him. The driver should have made sure there was no one coming on the pavement before pulling out. Both to blame, cyclist gets a bruise, car might have a scratch, end of story.

Rule 206 "Give way to pedestrians and cyclists on the pavement" Did the driver do that? No.

> Wouldn't apply in any way shape or form, as > described by the OP. > > Cyclist approaching on the pavement at speed > wouldn't give the most careful of drivers the > chance to stop creeping forward, brake and then > reverse. There's more to the Highway Code than > just reading it. We don't know how fast the cyclist was going. The car was on the pavement and clearly the driver hadn't looked carefully either way before driving on to it - otherwise they would have seen the cyclist. I am not saying the cyclists wasn't at fault too. However not being able to see is not an excuse for hitting someone - especially if you are driving on the pavement.