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DaveR's points have been about how schools have improved, which MAY be true (again, depending on how you measure improvement). But it doesn't take in to account the expectations on teachers, a lot of whom are working under really really difficult circumstances for what is actually pretty rubbish money when you actually look at the hours they're working. The great pyramids of Egyps are a towering sucess and great acheivement, but I bet the poor fuckers that built them would have gone on strike had they been union members! ;-)

Well said SplendidLike Peckham (and great name!). SplendidLikePeckham Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why on earth shouldn't the Lib Dems claim credit? > He's a Lib Dem councillor for goodness sake - it > would be odd if they didn't...! This is fair enough, but the problem is that lots of (not particularly bright) people will then be against a new school for the area simply because they don't support the Lib Dems, that's why I think it's better having politics left out of it.

bornagain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > For the sake of the community, let > us have an open mind. Having two bids from two > excellent schools surely is a great place to be? It seems to be where we are at, so yes, no point crying over spilled milk, hopefully the bids will be good and an excellent school will open in the area whichever it may be...

Not sure, but try giving The Castle a call.

Stateeducation Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I would not trust him to make a decision about > state education in our community when he quite > clearly does not value or trust state education > for his own children I don't speak for the man, but perhaps he felt that due to lack of local provision he had little choice but to go private, and has now worked hard to change that situation for other families by fighting for a new school... Either way, his family and personal life have absolutely no place in this discussion. Dirty cheap shots.

Bloody hell, I was trying to take your side! I think you've done a great piece of work for your local area. I just find it cringe worthy when everything comes back to political point scoring. And equally I find it annoying that people will be so negitive about this just because they don't support your party. Party politics should play no part in this is my opinion, but it always will. Edit to add that this was in response to James, and I've cross posted with the previous two posts

DaveR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > all the evidence suggests that the changes have been > positive. I think that very much depends on how you measure "positive".

Albert you rightly say that this should not be political and that the Lib Dems shouldn't try to claim credit. Equally, or more so, this should not be personal and bringing up the man's children is well out of order! And what on earth are you on about "i find it strange a southwark councillor is looking outside the borough"? Surely you want them to look wherever they need to look to find the best provider!

6 weeks in Penge now, and loving it. Only thing I'd like is a decent pub to go to and watch the footy. Don't want a gastro, as that's not a pub. Just want a nice booza. Have tried a couple and whilst I haven't felt intimmidated, I've not exactly enjoyed the experience. So for now I shall continue to get the bus to Fox's on Kirkdale, or down to The Castle in ED when the footy is on. Off to The Bridge House this evening to watch Macbeth which should be an interesting evening.

DaveR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So are we agreed that the link in your original > post was to a load of simplistic superficial > nonsense, making zero contribution to the real > and complex debate about what effective education > looks like? Dave it's a poem, a pice of art. You wouldn't expect a protest song to lay out all the arguments in great detail, it's more of a war cry. And whilst some of it is a bit cringe worthy, she does touch on a lot of real issues.

DaveR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Anybody who cites Rosa Parks and Arthur Scargill > in the same sentence has sacrificed any > credibility they ever may have had. I admit I cringed at that. > all the evidence is that state schools have been > getting better and better at exactly the same time > as teachers have been protesting that it is being > destroyed. Funny that. Depends how you define better. And the point is they put the effort in, but their working conditions are becoming too much, they're not just having a moan over nothing. Modern state education is little more than an exercise in performance management.

Really powerful stuff. And she's not exaggerating abiut their workloads. No bloody way I'd ever teach.

Exactly!!! So you'd be a bit annoyed if your conclusion then counted for nothing.

To clarify, I didn't mean the existence of the steering group was a waste of time, I meant that their consideration of the applications looks like it was a waste of time.

I understand all that, and the "teams being knocked out" was a footy analogy in response to a previous post. The point is, if anyone can just submit their applications to the DoE, you have to ask what the point was of the whole steering group, which is now looking like it was a complete waste of everyone's time. Although one would hope that they will be able to submit their findings to the DoE and they will be considered.

Of course, but can you really not see why James and the rest of the steering group might be feeling a bit hacked off having given God knows how many hours to considering applications, only for the second placed lot to just decide that they're going to ignore that outcome altogether and basically rubbish it. I do agree though that it would be useful to know what criteria was used by the steering group to make their decision.

I went to Aske's in the 90s when it was separate boys school and girls school. I imagine the vast majority of the staff from back then are no longer working there, and I have absolutely no ties to the organisation today. And couldn't tell you a thing about it in terms of personal experience. Likewise I have nothing at all against Charter. I am just an interested reader who thought it was good to see that Aske's was going to be opening a school in an area which is screaming out for a new secondary. I just think the way Charter have gone about things today is a bit crap. Had the announcement been that Charter had come out top, and Aske's then tried to get in by the back door, I'd be saying exactly the same about them.

Well said Cora. It's not like James has done all this behind closed doors on the quiet. He couldn't have been more open about the process, and today's events are just odd.

What's the point in a group stage if the teams that get knocked out just decide they're staying in the competition?

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Any West Ham fans ever been to The Village on > Barking Road? Now, there was a pub that lived up > to its name, a rural ambience and a friendly > clientele.... Haha, yes you can almost hear the Archers theme tune in the ambiance.

Surely the point is that there was competition and a group considered applications and chose a winner. Most of all I agree with this. bawdy-nan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But, this post decision spatting, claiming > (victory for the lib dems according to the email > as it arrived in my inbox this morning) and > counter claiming really illustrates well many of > the points made earlier up the thread about the > ramshackle nature of marketising education. I hate > and distrust the trying to make political capital > out of this as well as the apparent territorial > upset that seems to have provoked some reactions.

I've also recently bought a flat on an estate (in Penge, so Bromley Council *shudders*), so am also interested.

I suppose it would negate the need for "what he said" or ^^^this But I doubt the software has the option.

Cross posted with Derek.

Ignore that, have reread the posts above and the links provided. This does seem pretty shoddy from Charter, stinks of sore loser. I take Derek's point about Charter being oversubscribed, but it doesn't necessarily follow that the families that don't get in would rather a second Charter in the area than another option. Look at all the complaints about Harris monopolising areas, surely choice so long as it's comparable is always preferable to more of the same.