Michael Palaeologus

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The lamb was probably veggie - hopefully

Is she the Vicar?

Crosses self repeatedly ..........

I think I agree with you. Make the world safer for prostitute women (and men) - by legalising it and regulating it. I cant help thinking that the dark side of prostitution is not exactly unique to this profession yet is still used as an excuse to ban it. Enough from me on this subject now.

If the choice was between starvation and chicken gutting - what would you do? If a woman chooses to go into prostitution, then it is a choice. There are jobs for people - but not necessarily nice jobs or well paid jobs; but these jobs would keep the wolf from the door - albeit in poverty. So a woman may chose to sell sex and make more money. That is her choce. She could stack shelves or flip burgers, but not make as much money and have to pay tax. There is nothing intrinsically wrong in selling your body as long as it is you who is selling your body and not somebody else who is selling it. The "economcs forces women in prostitution" misses the point, economcs forces people to work - what they actually do is there choice. Their choice governs how much they make and how much they enjoy what they do BUT it is their choice and the state has no business sticking its nose into that under the spurious mantle of stopping people trafficing.

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Excellent - a short stagger.

Well done CWALD. An open debate is great - but there is a strand of thinking that condemns all aspects of prostitution because it goes against a strand of feminist thinking that sees all such activitiy as violence againt woman-kind, whether the women involved belive that or not. It is a political view not a moral view and is simply not based on the fact. This view is absolutist as there is no room for compromise i.e. all prostitution is bad because it is an abuse of all women and all the men that buy sex are abusers - therefore totally ban it. It is difficult to have a reasoned debate with such a perspective, as anybody who disagrees is "clearly" supporting the sexual exploitation of women. Citing drug abuse and people trafficing is an easy way of attacking prostitution but is not born out by proper research or indeed pragmatic rational thinking. Surely to god it is obvious that whilst people trafficing is a bad thing - the majority of prostitutes are NOT trafficed but are working as prostitutes as a choice. Some like it, some tolerate it - but that is true for all jobs - the difference is "sex" and that is the problem as "sex" has become politicised.

Lots of debate about this in the past. The ideal situation would be that it continues as a pub, has some money spent on it and maximises the use of the amazing space that it has. Worst case scenarios are that it either becomes a chain Bar or, the biggest horror is that the Crystal Palace Tavern becomes Crystal Palace Towers having been converted into flats.

I am: Mild Nike or my favourite Ogle

OK - PC on 13/2. Ganapati for the next one. Cheers M

I think so.

Georgia and I or one of us organise the drinks. Unless someone else would like to step up to the plate.

MIRASH - oh yes.

Dander up I thnk. To claim that all Prostitutes are enslaved and that criminalising all in involved in Prostitution will emancipate said slaves is innacurate and niaive. By banning the pea growing industry do you solve the problem of trafficed people being enslaved as pickers in East Anglia? I think not. Leave morality out of this - nobody has the right to tell somebody else what they can and cant do with their bodies - whether that be an Albanian pimp or a moralising politician. We have legislation against slavery that should theoretically stamp out people trafficing - what it needs is the investment in resources to make it happen. At the moment a large percentage of the sex industry is run quite openly and within the current law - search "Escorts" in Google - cutting out that which refers to Ford motorcars. Criminalising all aspects of Prostitution will simply drive the whole industry underground and I suggest that we dont have the resources to police the current situation - trying to police the whole thing will mean that far more trafficed people will actually get through an overstressed police net. The situation will simply get worse not better.

Well said Domitianus.

I agree with the comments to avoid the emotional. Challenge the morality - who are they (mainstream Politicians) to impose a set of moral values on anybody else? - given the current questionable activities of both Conservative and Labour politicians. Trafficing will be thrown at you. Yes it is terrible, but are the majority of Prostitutes trafficed? I suggest not, some are and that is awful - but hit the trafiicers not the Prostitutes and the not the clients. This generalisation is convenient way of trying to generate public support for what is essentially a political move. Many sectors have bad sides - thousands of people are killed on the road - are we going to criminalise driving? Also - how many MPs pay for sex I wonder? Are they really going to criminalise themselves? Prostitution - legalise it, regulate it, tax it. Protect the Prostitutes, take those who abuse Prostitute women through the courts and put them away for a long time, but for gods sake lets get away from this bizzare Victorian hypocrisy.

Stunned silence .... a ball of tumble weed skitters past .... The Emperor has no clothes on?!

I think that 13 Feb is a good compomise - leave it any later and it is ages away. Those of us who are playing Badiminton and wish to go can meet the rest of you in a pub at 8.30 and eat at 9.

and for Keef - NTB!

Which restaurant then? We havent tried Coriander, Surma, Pistacchio Club Ganapati (down Bellendeden way and rather small if we have a big group) or the Mirash (officially) and some others no doubt. I fancy the Pistacchio Club for what its worth.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! People are fading, fading, come back Keef, come back!

Looks like we are gravitating towards the Uplands on 29/2 - large enough pub to hold us, is acceptable to all and is in East Dulwich. Maybe we should alternate ED pubs with neighbouring area pubs - Dulwich last time, ED this time, etc.