????

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It was Johnson out and election before end of 2021 > for me > > I?m not cancelling that bet > Genuine question, what are the circumstances that give us a GE next year? 80 seat majority, trade deal done, Covid probably looking rosier next. I just don?t see where you get a vote of no confidence in 2021 or in fact anytime before the next scheduled election. It?s almost inconceivable without some black swan event?

wordsworth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > God this is pitiful to read... I think you mean 'facile'

I think on balance and with current trajectory I'll possibly vote for Starmer at the next GE. But to say Boris is a joke is a bit laughable really. He got a withdrawal agreement that most at the time said he wasn't going to get, he got a trade agreement that most people either said he wasn't aiming for (some tedious lefty 'it's destructive capitalism funded by his hedge fund mates' blah blah bollox) or was impossible*. He's been a conservative mayor of labour London twice, he won an 80 seat majority a year ago. People who oppose him, for very many sound reasons, really really need to stop underestimating him. He's not a clown or a joke. *for absolute clarity, neither are better than what we had when we were in the EU

You should wash your hands and read some other viewpoints

We'll see. Wasn't Boris going to be out by the end of this year or early next max or something? Don't remember whether that was here or Twitter, but you were pretty adamant.

That's a damn fine straw you found there from a veritable source. Ok guys don't move on, sit and stew and boil and froth. Really won't do you any good what so ever.

PS Internet forum discussions are facile

racism won it, is a trope too

Democracy is a flawed, flaky and open to manipulation process but that's what it is. The referendum result was a legitimate decision within the boundaries of democracy. Votes weren't bought, people weren't intimidated, there wasn't mass scale corruption. Obama's campaign used data analytics very successfully, project fear was full of lies too. As i said, I think if we asked the same question again tomorrow we'd get the same answer. Nothing's gonna change that decision, remainers need to move on, as most have, dwelling on charlatans, thickies, russian bots. racism etc etc isn't gonna do anyone any good. I voted remain, I'd vote remain again but I do accept the decision.

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > so you think that's worse than you talking to KK > with "this patronising, elitist crap makes me > laugh. You should stop believing what you read in > The Guardian mate." > > that's somehow not personalising it? No. I don't know KK and he posted a load of patronising elitist crap - 'It woz the uneducated racists wot won it', similar lines to the high Tories before the Great Reform Act of 1832..the plebs can't be trusted. This is why you who think you're soooo progressive and sooooo right will continue to be disappointed. Happy New Year, no sign of a flounce > >

Your MO. You?ve been trotting out your shit for years too, I just don?t see the worth or the revelance of pointing that out.

This still, years later, this is the narrow worldview you trot out at will

Still got to personalise it as always too. Your long held MO.

You?re the one with a narrow worldview stuck in a bubbles, which is why you?re continually shocked by what happens after fter all these years I?ve family across Europe most of them don?t actually give much of a fuck. Not that anecdotal stories about our personal experience means SFA.

Boris is ?the Joke leader of the world?, I think you need to rephrase that?Boris is the joke leader of the Twitter world? , it?s just a narrative from those of a certain political persuasion reading retweeted articles from the New York Times

That?s very noble of you and pie in the sky fantasy in all democracies. You?re vastly underestimating the role of emotion in democratic decisions.

If we?d had a non/looney in charge of the Labour Party during the referendum , say Andy Burnham, I think it?s possible the referendum result would have been different BUT if we?d had Andy Burnham as leader at the last GE offering us another referendum to ratify you really think he?d have won? I don?t.

Scotland and NI can vote to leave the UK democratically too. We live in a kingdom where the English by weight of population dominate, although they are underrepresented in seats, you can call it false English exceptionalism, you can say they?re wrong, and ultimately they can decide to leave but it?s still reflects the majority opinion of the UK.

We can go back in democratically. We voted out in a referendum and then a party saying they were going to get us our won a majority of 80. The majority of voters don?t want us in. I think it?s a mistake, but not as catastrophic as you do. But it is democracy.

But that?s democracy folks

There we?re also an unfortunate set of circumstances in that the main opposition at the same time elected a moronic Marxist anti-European dinosaur as leader but again that?s democracy. Anyone who voted Corbyn as leader is equally moronic in my opinion.

I think it was the wrong decision but we live in a democracy. Prior to the referendum a party that had a high number of eurosceptic MPS and members was pressuring it?s leadership for a referendum did enough pressuring to get a manifesto commitment to a referendum that?s how internal democracy works in a party. That party then won an election, unexpectedly, and likely because they offered that referendum. At that same election UKIP took 12% of the vote, although no MPs. In the euro elections UKIP won the most seats. There was a clear democratic call for a referendum. To argue otherwise and that ?it was to solve internal conservative problems? is to misunderstand democracy . They won, they?d win if it was offered again tomorrow. We need to get over it. I don?t think we?ll be going back either. But we?ll see.

Amazing how bloody plebs voting annoys the great and good of the enlightened folk

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > A definite potential positive is we now know and > have clear evidence of several things, which we > could take the opportunity to address (or, > conversely, ignore and slip further down the > greasy pole to hell), namely: > - stupidity of offering ?advisory? referendums > - madness in allowing an under-educated population > to decide critical facets of UK international > policy (even Richard Dawkins suggested he was not > qualified to vote on Brexit, so why was he given > the choice on something he had no hope of > understanding at the time of the referendum) > - dangers of allowing blatant lies in political > campaigns > - media manipulation of huge swathes of the > population for political ends > - dangers of populist leaders (also, see Trump for > how bad it could get) > - the need to educate the population as to the > actual history of the British empire and address > blatant racism in the UK > - educate the population to understand and accept > the value foreigners bring to the UK > - damage caused by rich elites driving > international strategy for personal gain > > But I find it laughable that Brexit voters ask > ?Remainers? for the positives in implementing > Brexit. > For me personally, this whole episode has enabled > me to properly recognise the extent to which our > population is uneducated and racist, at least I > now know who I?m dealing with and how easily > manipulated they are and how much damage they are > willing to inflict on their own country (in the > name of patriotism). > > > TheCat Wrote: > ------------------------ > forward? I voted remain but this patronising, elitist crap makes me laugh. You should stop believing what you read in The Guardian mate.

Having sat in his shadow cabinet all during this shameful period at least Starmer got it right this time If, after all the pain, all the grief, and all the evidence in this report, there are still those who think there?s no problem with antisemitism in the Labour party, that it?s all exaggerated, or a factional attack, then, frankly, you are part of the problem too and you should be nowhere near the Labour party either.? Bung the nasty crank and his tankie mates out of the Labour Party