SeanMacGabhann

HLB - I have a copy of Gunshy knocking around somewhere on cassette still if you are stuck (I think...)

popped into the Uplands today on the back of your post Deborah - not sure if that was you serving behind the bar at the time Some light changes to the decor - there seems to be a cosier feel to the area just in front of the bar before the dining area and the menu has been simplified (A Good Thing in any pub IMO) Twas Christmas Eve and therefore a different atmos everywhere around town so hard to judge accurately but we enjoyed ourselves and will be back All the best

I'm inclined to agree keef/asset - it's just I remember when I joined the forum there was a lot of noise around new masts going up eater81 - glad you have moved on from your noise issues on LL - hope the new address works out well. I don't think there was anything trolly about your post so I wouldn't worry about macker's post. I shall find out about t-mobile reception for myself in the Dog tomorrow afternoon!

It could be that the sort of "no mobile phone masts near me!" person proliferates near the village. So rather than berate the companies have a word with your neighbours

was going to reply to this and then I thought "he's winding me up". I hope The food was all lush that night - I still remember it well

A good compromise there BN5 - Piers and I have been introduced on another thread already http://avatar.xboxlive.com/avatar/Brunceling/avatar-body.png http://avatar.xboxlive.com/avatar/ED%20mockers/avatar-body.png

Michael - you are deliberately invoking DulwichMum's wrath - and that is mean of you at this time of year - leave the poor dear alone! ;-)

Hardy? Flowery? methinks you were rebelling too much CWALD

I think everyone knows that quids - and that has never bothered me. I know if I want the organic chicken or beef I can ask for it there but I never do - but to answer Annasfields question - it's not Billy Rose produce in particular.. it's the quality and more importantly the range of most of the meat in most butchers that makes the difference Buy your joint of choice from a supermarket and from any decent butchers. Cook the same. Taste. If you can't tell the difference in most cases then summat is wrong Listening to London radio this morning, most parts of London are reporting similar queues outside butchers - it's not just an ED thing. Ditto Billingsgate market as well. And it's no big deal really Caveat: if anyone is good enough to cook for me I'm hardly going to complain if they haven't the time to queue ;-)

touch? Keef! ;-)

you so serious today - chill..... s'all goooood I didn't read it as a suggestion to me - I just marked myself anyway... Now, back to [joke deleted for fear of being taken out of context - Ed]

of course I didn't mean you... as for the virtues you promote - I try, Moos, I try Piers - lol. My typing is usually just nuts but that made me chuckle

cheers Moos - mostly I'm just trying to give James some small and belated support in an argument I think he was badly treated in.. The churches (plural) view on the subject is worthy of more debate - possibly on another thread about religion generally. But I'm not starting it... I'll get by nose punched ;-)

Jeremy - I would say most Catholics (and I'm from Ireland remember - I know a couple) have a superstitious support of the pope - if it interferes with their enjoyment of life they ignore him but if he supports a prejudice they quote him ... er... religiously And remember with the economy going to the dogs, many older Catholics are LITERALLY rubbing their hands saying "well this means more people will come back to the church now" It almost makes me wish the whole thing was true so they could burn in hell

well Rowan Williams wouldn't be so silly as to express them as explicitly but he is certainly less than reassuring - from Wiki for example: "In an August 19, 2006 interview with the Dutch newspaper Nederlands Dagblad, Williams discussed the Episcopal Church in the United States of America's increasingly liberal policies regarding homosexuality, saying that "in terms of decision-making the American Church has pushed the boundaries."[23] Williams argued that the Church had to be "welcoming", rather than "inclusive", a distinction he characterised by saying: "I don't believe inclusion is a value in itself. Welcome is. We don't say 'Come in and we ask no questions'. I do believe conversion means conversion of habits, behaviours, ideas, emotions. The boundaries are determined by what it means to be loyal to Jesus Christ."[23] Moreover, the Archbishop appeared to distance himself from his more liberal 1989 essay, explaining, "That was when I was a professor, to stimulate debate? It did not generate much support and a lot of criticism ? quite fairly on a number of points."[23] However, in a later interview with Time magazine in June 2007, he stated that he had not changed his own mind, although he is now constrained from expressing personal views at variance with the corporate view of the Church. In answer to the question "You yourself once thought it possible that same-sex relationships might be legitimate in God's eyes" he responded: "Yes, I argued that in 1987. I still think that the points I made there and the questions I raised were worth making as part of the ongoing discussion. I'm not recanting. But those were ideas put forward as part of a theological discussion. I'm now in a position where I'm bound to say the teaching of the Church is this, the consensus is this. We have not changed our minds corporately. It's not for me to exploit my position to push a change."[24]" it goes on to say "In 2008, it was reported that Williams had stated in 2000 or 2001 that homosexual relationships could "reflect the love of God" in a manner comparable to heterosexual marriages, and that he believed that passages in the Bible which are often cited in support of the view that homosexuality is a sin, in fact are aimed at heterosexual people seeking variety in their sexual experience, rather than at gay people.[27]" which to my mind makes things worse - what's wrong with "heterosexual people seeking variety in their sexual experience" - did I miss a memo?

Indeed Moos indeed - and I'm not raising it now to have a go at religion at this moment in time (I clearly do that enough and will probably continue doing so at another time) but purely to point out how a powerful institution (could equally be a government - think Italy) is able to confidently condemn homosexuals in a way that they just can't do to other groups of people - and that has nothing to do with gay people "banging on" about how gay they are. Which is what most people objecting to to James point seemed to assert

so none of John Sergeant's defenders are still sticking up for him and still condemning the judges for being pompous? No? Anyone?

I knew something would occur to resurrect this thread .. and bless Pope Creepy and Religion - a marriage made in heaven so does anyone think that the leader of a major christian religion would be able to say anything remotely similar about a group of any race? Of course not... and that is at the core of James' point surely

Me in the queue for 40 minutes talking to some really nice people behind me. Thought about the coffee and soup that the girls form luca were offering but got on with it. Lots of good cheer from everyone around me and a christmas feel at large. So all good from my point of view. But the queue as a phenomenon is interesting. Supply not meeting demand. Hell the queuet at sparkes was bad as well. Lidl is well and good cwald but ill take the taste test any day. And besides are there really no queues there today ?

and your point is that who should pay ?

With you on that one too edoldie

No no I mustn't... it's too easy But yes that's teh one - i ws a bit worried when it arrived I wasn't goingto make it through... oh I fancy it now

Tis one of the few books I nearly had to put down not because I was bored but how vile I was finding it. But I'm glad I stuck with it - it's a terrific book. Of course it's horrifying but it isn't amoral and I think it's good to read something which is well-written, intelligent and horrifying and ask questions fom it. The protagonist is now easily-portrayed as an 80s yuppie and therefore From Somewhere Else - but his ability to be at the centre of society and yet go unnoticed whilst that depraved... why it almost has echoes of recent financial scandals.... What dehumanises someone to that level? Making a shedload of cash and being told how important you are to global markets might be a factor

Sadly Tony I did realise how polite you were trying to be.. I know you are champing at the bit to let rip about not just the people your self-made-businessmen dealt with were unscrupulous, but their familes and children as well. But as ever, the question would remain - why single them out? Why not ask your business buddies about all of the people they have had to ... be robust with. Or how much of my pension they are salting away in some tax haven? I'm not really trying to have a go at them or you , but I'm not going to listen to how morally sound one group of people are compared with another. Go speak with gypsies and ask them how often they have been screwed over by people. Human stories are the same in all walks of life.. to suggest that somehow gypsies deserve to be singled out for opprobrium is not being politically incorrect - it's just wrong By all means do tell of the times you have been done-over by individuals belonging to gypsies, business-men, Paddies etc - but to generalise like that just leads to entrenched positions on both sides and ain't helpful in the long run

ahem - those of us with white hair can often be found at Nick Cave gigs! I'm not having anyone call me a "grey groover" tho..