SeanMacGabhann

Gross misrepresentation. Huguenot was at the same game. Wishing individuals well on their way to a Ferrari is well and good. If he fails he fails and apart from him and his noone needs to give a shit. I hope he suceeds an I wish him well. When institutions are based on the same premise and dwarf many whole nations then it's madness to apply the same criteria, even if that institution is made up of many individuals

I didn't see anyone wishing the banks had gone bust quids But it would be nice if having fucked up and still so well paid they weren't exhonerated quite so much (even if I get that it's a counter argument to those who decry the banks too much)

Speak for yourself - I did alright that night ;-) Ok it was with Mick, but still...

Leaving aside care about the poor kids themselves for a minute, from a selfish point of view I?m more likely to get mugged, burgled or whatever by a generation of kids brought up without any support

When something seems too cute to be true, it probably is Any country which can produce the likes of Le Corbusier HR Giger John bleedin? Calvin Not to mentione the bow-down beauty of Ursula Andress and Irene Jacob Is a bit more than clocks and chocolates And not only that but APPARENTLY, lot?s of bankers want to go an live there Not Italy (it should be confessed that the list of notable people on wiki doesn?t throw up many jewels)

You know those signs that the weekend is coming? I'm loving this latest - Thu night, quids gets back and we're up an running properly again for a few days. Marvellous

sorry Rosie - my fault for skimming. Or your fault for using Latin somewhere in a post maybe

Money is always threatening to do this. It's always worst case scenario But given the parlous state is the us economy and political landscape I wouldn't bet on it

tWas but a caricature Jeremy. As I've said elsewhere I don't think the banks are the sole problem in all if this at all. But some people seem too keen to go too far the other way in absolving them completely And I can't think of any senior person at a financial institution would even think that comment. But i have heard lower traders along those lines. Joshing obviously in that way they do. Ie hiding every grotesque thought under a bit of banter. But I accept your point

Wouldn't most of those users have started on booze and cigs ratty? Are they not the gateway drug?

It isn't just the uk that's unhappy with the banks part in all of this. Most countries are having similar debates. Where are the banks moving to?

Big Man: ?I invent complex financial instruments which make me and this bank a LOT of money ? I DESERVE my large salary? Nervous journo: ?Do these instruments require millions of people to take out loans and mortgages?? BM: ?Indeed ? that way they can get the things they want and I get to be rich ? win win!? NJ: ?I see. But haven?t we been here before where house prices rise to the point where people can?t afford them anymore and evrything collapses in a pile of bad debt?? BM: ?ah but that?s the genius of my cleverness!! These products I have devised ensure that won?t happen this time. In fact, make sure you write this down, lot?s of people will say this so I want credit - ?This Time It?s Different?? NJ: ?Good good ? but if I may? suppose all of these future customers decide not to take the risk and don?t take out the loans. Your, erm, instruments, will be worthless won?t they? In which case why are you a genius and why do you deserve all these bonuses?? BM: ?If people are nervous then we?ll just bombard all media for years with the message. This Time It?s Different. Or Better Do It Now Before You Can?t Afford It Next Year. Basically, it has to work and we?ll continue until it does? NJ: ?Well, you?re convincing me! Ahahahahahahahahahaha ? ok but let?s scenario-test (that?s a phrase you use isn?t it?) What if the whole thing implodes ? it won?t but let?s just pretend ? who will be to blame?? BM: ?This is the best bit ? if it goes all tits up (and between you and me who knows eh? Wink wink) then governments will give me more money and we can lay the blame at the feet of the idiots who took out loans they shouldn?t have!!!? NJ: ?You really are a bit of a c*** aren?t you?

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It's not just people in public sector. There are people in the banking sector who feel there is a case to answer I support any calls to not make banking the whipping boys of this mess. but let's not rewrite history and cast them as the good guys either

I get why you are pushing Brendan or me for ?an answer? Huge, but I don?t have one. I don?t think anyone does But I would like to see more ?it can be done, let?s figure out how? discussions instead of the more ?it is what it is? bent A blank maximum wage for example wouldn?t work but as a ratio against the lowest paid in that company? That seems like a starting point for a discussion Shareholders ensuring correcty incentivisation? That doesn?t seem too succesful to me ? at best it can work in the short term for the company in question but as we have seen?. What?s good for the company ain?t good for the system

oh but of course ;-) But I would say to that twin that his line " there is a danger that going further (in the here and now) may disincentivise the workers - tax-payers have long complained about those who'd rather parasitise the benefits system than oil the wheels of capitalism." is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. We heard it LOUD and clear before the introduction of the minimum wage from many different quarters - "job losses!" "unfair burden on business!" etc etc One can give too much credence to the Cassandra wailing

Even if I were to just accept that Hal, then when it comes to this bit: "Our system demands a poor majority ? an underclass, if you will " I wish the better off would stop vilifying that poor majority But anyway - I don't think anyone here is aiming to spread everything equally - I think even the furthest left amongst us are looking for a less wide gap And to stop with all the fatalism for a moment, the world has made huge strides over the centuries - be it slavery abolition, womens votes, right up to the start of a minimum wage - each and every one was opposed bitterly with similar fatalistic opposition

Or at least a show on e4

Djkq. You do sometimes seem the living embodiment of how people view the puritanical left. Your generalization about drinkers versus smokers doesn't stack up at all In short... What *bob* said

I'm sure Noone would do such a thing, narnia Eldritch Err... I mean Sean

oh that's too good

someone else was fond of this recently... now what was their name again?.. TourettE? no Tardy? no tarot, that was it

There is also the cost of how to patrol the policy. Another benefit of universal allowances is the much lower admin costs But on the other hand whilst I obviously agree with Messers Carnell and Mockney, unless you are going to oppose every cut, this seems like one to let go

he's just having a joke Ridgely. Don't be so PC and boring BTW, Brendan, who you agreed with so vehemently? he was joking too

I?m pretty sure you can see much more on TV now than you could do at any point in history. More sex, politicians aren?t treated with undue-respect, more language and on and on. Casual racism not so much. I think that?s a pretty decent trade-off don?t you? If Mind your Language is doing well in the West Indies that?s entirely up to them ? but it was being broadcast here in the UK in the same decade as the Conservative party were campaigning in and around Birmingham with the slogan ?'If You Want a Nigger for a Neighbour Vote Liberal or Labour' and a period which many West Indians were victimised. If Ridgely feels more comfortable in the UK in 2010 it?s largely down to people not standing for that kind of stuff any more