SeanMacGabhann

Hal - the thread was bumbling along with Easties and his 20-something conspiracy videos and people like Huguenot rebutting him - do you really need me to type which side of the fence i'm on with this one? The reason I responded to your post wasn't a cheap dig at you it was just shock - you are an erudite guy, with a few more years of experience behind you than a 20-something but instead of talking about specifics you came onto the thread with a breathtaking piece of catch-all generalisation and paranoia it brooked no argument - let's have a look at it again "Since prehistoric times the masses have been controlled and manipulated by the conspiracies of the ruling elite. " Care to back that up? Course not. But in any case, by your logic either I am being controlled and manipulated OR I'm one of the ruling elite But allow me to argue back and say the problem with "the masses" is they couldn't give a monkeys. Give them/us alcohol, sex and flashing light and we're largely happy. We live in interesting times where the sum of human knowledge is not just written in books which are taught in academies available only to those with the means to access this information - but to everyone. And people are as disinterested now as they ever were. They/we aren't being controlled, they/we are just essentially not interested enough. The price we pay for that is reduced influence on events. "In Europe, the poor were kept in their place with myths about blue blood, divine appointment and the terrors of hell - conspiracies that served the interests of the ruling elite. " Plenty of people rich and poor still believe a lot of that nonsense - and I spend a lot of time arguing with them in religious threads. I don't think they are being kept in place by anyone tho "Conspiracies by vested interests are everywhere." such vagueness is by it's nature almost impossible to argue with. hence my exasperation

interested to know what the bleating was about and if it is really comparable For sure if they are parking there needlessly just because they can then yeah that's not great but it doesn't really warrant the multiple threads that it seems to. Yes the council should set a good example - we agree on that - but all teh grumbling about councils, and money-making and so on ignores the root cause. And no-one seems to want to talk about that, far happier to complain endlessly about the council, which is just externalising the problem

Debate with what? It would be like debating with the guy on speakers corner. Sometimes you just have to shake your head

I'm not starting any threads, naming names and castigating people. That'll be you. So dont tar me and others with the same brush

Hal, if you believe that post of yours, i despair

If I was a busy councillor with an intray of correspondance far in excess of any hope if clearing, i would prioritise my responses and deal with those queries which at least had the good manners to understand there is a human being involved aggressive, self important queries would probably get pushed to the bottom. Or ignored iamhere, on the available evidnce, would be somebody i would actively want to vote for someone else. Or emigrate

still don't see a massive problem - if the problem is road safety and road space then these cars are a teeeeeeeeny tiny part of the problem and may be doing more good than harm - if you want safer roads and more room on them go to the source of the problem

+ Oh I don't know - many drivers seem to subscribe to "just because you can't doesn't mean you can't" The bleating on this thread beggars belief. Were y'all breast fed until teenage years or something? If people weren't parking illegaly then these guys wouldn't even exist for you to moan about. you are putting the horse before the cart so to speak As stated before - if these guys have to go and find a "proper" parking space and walk back to the guilty car the chances are it'll be gone. Much like police chasing after joy-riders don't stick to the legal speed limit because... come on you can do this... because... If the roads are dangerous places it isn't because of these wardens

Dear god. That's possibly the worst article I have read in a long time. And I say that as someone who has had the misfortune to read tanya gold in the guardian

I would say Europe had a massive part to play in the Irish peace process Not from any financial or legal perspective but Irish people stopped defining themselves in as narrow terms as they had previously. And it's this element of going further with integration that most appeals to me. I just don't understand the British, more specifically English, stance of being so "separate" it's almost cute until you think of where it will leave England in years to come

nor a Mork and Mindy fan then, no? There is a lot in that last email which, whilst I don?t agree with it, is at least honest. The not quite being able to put your finger on something but it making you uneasy - not a bad position inherently But still your language betrays you - for someone who is unsure to then point in the direction of politcal correctness and do-gooders seems a bit strange. For these people to be victims (your words) you have to be more specific about how they are victims All manner of crud could end up on their doorstep (that tends to happen with pioneers, historically, wouldn't you agree) but will it truly be any worse than anything that goes on in "normal" families across the world. Will it not lead to enlightenment? Or at least somewhere between possible and probable enlightenment?

Quids - be all that as it may, Huguenot is trying to tease out from silverfox just what his solution to Britain's place in a changing world is and how best it can position itself Huguenot and I happen to be on the European integration side, silverfox is against it and you I think are against it but you hedged that slightly in your last post by saying "you question" it And all that is fine, but the question remains, if Britain is to not engage with fully with the EU, what do you think it's tactics should be

Marvellous Now back to the topic. If you find my questions irrelevant than please say so and show me how You are the one with the concerns around the experiment but it really isn't clear why I suggested the child maybe a subject of bullying and you agreed so I asked you why you don't go after the bully instead of the victims Calling this issue an experiment and PC driven is something that has been thrown at campaigners over the years - including the issues that both I and Huguenot have brought into the discussion How you fail to see the link between them I can't explain

might be worth checking out the tmobile forums Not a happy bunch on there generally but it looks like this problem isn't isolated

in short, no, I'm not admitting anything like that

easy tiger - you won't find anything in my response that accuses you of being a bully or being racist or homophobic What I'm trying to do is ask you why you aren't going after the bully? I'm also asking you where you draw the line on "experiments" and I chose the legalisation of homosexuality as a related case It's not a question you have answered either I wouldn't mind if you withdrew the accusation of pavlovian rsponse as well

a referendum will only provide an answer to the question do you want in or out It won't answer the question about what will make britain a better country If Ireland has been transformed in the last 20 years (and you may notice it has some pretty large problems of it's own at the moment) it is because it has been on every practical level pro-european. Britain has managed to alienate pretty much every senior European partner in the same period - precisely because of the petty attitudes you display So if life comes down to a "we are better/worse off by x trillion" statement (and it really doesnt) then that might have rather a lot to do with it

Publicly funding the artist, I'm not so keen to support Publicly funding the art itself - providing the space for, and making affordable the exhibition and promotion of, I would be much more vocal about.

so why not go after the bully instead of the parents or children? So no prejudice - you don't see PC as something to be sneered at or derided then? You are a supporter of PC? As for experiment - was legalising homosexuality an "experiment" from the PC bridgade too? If so, how do you judge it? If not, why was that not an experiment but this is?

I wouldn't be quick to dismiss any link between yesterday's "nastiness" and the ease with which threads fall into this kind of tedium on a regular basis

who are these "same scientists" vince - are they nameless elite, or are you actually saying the same individuals?

so, when you are done telling us where we are going wrong, what would your solution be silverfox?

silverfox - you're creeping me out You give yourself away with your prejudice about "PC experiments" but I don't doubt you are generally worried - so do tell, what are you worried about - what can go "wrong" with this experiment? Explain each possible wrong outcome and detail how that will be the fault of the experiment or the "women with beards" instead of the nasty, small minded people who will bully them?

can I suggest that will just hack off a load of badly paid people who already know about the situation if engineers know about it they will be working on it - its not in their comemrcial interests to do nothing . Ringing a call centre will have no positive impact on the outcome whatsover

read all about it