Moos

Really? Do you think so? Plenty of people on this thread alone.. I think I'm missing your point again, soz. Edit to say - come now, Jah, you're not trying. A lovely plumpy baby? Delicious!

Mais non, *Bob*, did anyone read this recently published book about how having children isn't all it's cracked up to be? Apparently it's not to be taken entirely seriously, and is attempting to topple French idealism towards children, but promises an interesting read. On your 'liking children' point, although attempts to halt generalisation are always to be applauded, I'd argue there is some truth in being able to say one does or does not 'like children'. Not all kids are the same, and anyway the definition usually seems to mean young children - but there is a general kid-ness which could be defined as brutal frankness, energy, a tendency to see the world in a very egocentric way, and a general lack of behavioural filters. Which one might find charming. Or not.

Well done, Asset, that's brilliant!

As an ex-newbie I object in the strongest possible terms to the derogatory and patronising term "newbie". I think you'll find the correct term is Of Recent Heritage (With Potential). Thank you for using the correct terminology in the future. Backsliders will be severely punished.

Mmm, lovely rugby players... I'm sorry, did you say something? :-$

Ah, now I see, gotcha. No worries. I do have a point of view on women/mothers in the workplace, but won't put it here as I don't want to derail the thread. Also, I basically can't be arsed. Maybe later..

erm, well...(shuffles feet)

Yeah, xackly Brendan. No thanks D_C on the cheese/milk combo. That's just weird.

ta

Kel, couldn't find the reference in the link you posted - sorry to be thick, what's up?

And to think I got stick on Friday for eating chocolate chip and nut biscuits with red wine! (6) You know who you were.

Just teasing you, VBC. Don't be angry, or I'll point my revolting snotty child at you.

Well, you do live in the middle of the East Dulwich Breeding Experiment. Erk, cross-posted again! Annaj, this was a response to Sean's post!

clive3300 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Of course you are right, and any thinking person > should reject prejuidice as immoral and stupid. > Unfortunately the reality is most people have > quite a number of prejudices against all sorts of > things and people. Education goes some of the way, > but will never eliminate this very human failing. > > However groups with particular prejuidices against > them by the wider population (mostly attitude and > behaviour) that rankle could often make more > active effort to defuse them. My moment of > deciding to make an effort was at the end of a job > interview (in London) where 2 company directors > actually laughingly sang a mildly rude song to me > about my general background and how its not nice. > Apparently it is/was a real song. > > Rather than freak out I decided there might be a > grain of truth and have thereafter made a little > extra effort to counteract the stereotype. > > Clearly the comment in the original topic of this > thread is just abhorent and no action should be > considered! Clive makes a good point. I'd add though, that some stereotypes which have proved more damaging than others, and therefore are rightly more taboo. I've had my share of blonde jokes, but I can't say I think they've ever damaged my career prospects or made me more liable to arrest. I'm not trying to create a 'hierarchy of prejudice' (that's being discussed elsewhere, erk) but it's easier to laugh off other people's prejudice if you know it'll never really hurt you.

What Anna said. I meant to say in my post that having kids clearly isn't for everyone, and it doesn't make you a better or worse person if you do or don't want them. I guess my post probably reads like evangelising for children, but it was just meant as a reflection of my own experience. I completely respect that it isn't the choice for everyone... ...but just to be a bit naughty, I will add that I reckon some of the posters on here may change their minds in the fullness of time, ha ha haaaaaaaaa.

Between all the posts, this thread has said it all. Having a child has for me been an expansion of the heart; as someone else said you not only love your child more than you knew that you could, but also have more love for others in your life - in my case particularly the wonderful Mr. Moos, and also my own mother. My son is funny, sweet and in many ways I find him inspiring: his open affectionate nature, his fearlessness, his determination, his concentration when he is learning something new. (And he's a perfectly ordinary baby, not a superwhizzchild at all.) But having children traps you in a particular way of life from which only military levels of planning and foxy cunning can provide a partial escape. I have only one child! but I found parts of my maternity leave incredibly difficult and depressing. I suspect that should we ever decide to have a second, I will feel much as Natasha does, with the demands of a toddler and a baby competing to exhaust and drain. Having returned to work and a job I really like has helped enormously for me, and I feel as though there is life beyond mumsiness in the shape of adult challenges, conversation and the freedom and self-respect of a pay cheque. Plus I love coming home to the little man, whereas before I couldn't wait to thrust him at his father when he came home from work... I wouldn't go back, though, not for all the money and undamaged figure and lie-ins and grown-up holidays in the world, the Moosling and his dad, my team-mate and lover, are the light of my life. Natasha, you have all my sympathy. I hope things balance out for you, and soon.

enough already... so people leave ED. So what.

Thank you once again, Georgia - where would the Forum be without you?

Ms B Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sorry, Moos, but I also think that anyone who > still whinges that gender discrimination is > stopping them from progressing in a mainstream job > in this country is just making excuses - sure, > other barriers are still there (try age) but even > in my lifetime things have changed hugely. Why not > be grateful for what women fought for over the > last century or so and do something to justify > their faith that it was worthwhile? My post was a reference to James' response to you ref 'sleeping your way to the top' and also to another post where he said 'But just as society is a bit further ahead at tackling sexism than it is racism, so it's a bit further ahead tackling racism than homophobia'. I don't think anyone would accuse a man of sleeping his way to the top. Nice to be called an ungrateful whinger as a result. Thank you.

So much nicer when we all get along, isn't it Michael? (twists the arm a bit harder)

Empirical evidence? Don't insult us with your scientific claptrap, Brendan.

The Rosy Tinters vs the Knife Quakers? Yeah, me too.

A few people were suggesting early August..

To be fair to the lovely Gwen she is super-pregnant, and probably had picked her way past rows of gawking spectators about 100 times to go to the loo during the match. Don't blame her for looking fed up - although shame given what an amazingly good match it was!

Jah Lush, is your brother Gavin Rossdale?!