Metallic

https://www.onlondon.co.uk/lewisham-council-to-announce-changes-to-low-traffic-neighbourhood-next-week/ This is to address displacement. Also: A debate about LTNs has been jointly-organised by On London and The London Society, taking place on 15 October, 6:30-7:30. Cost ?5. Details and tickets available from the Onlondon website.

One could almost forget this is a free country!

legalalien Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well. It?s complex and expensive I suspect > (challenging powers that be is ever thus). Is > anyone in touch with those working on the case in > Ealing? If not happy to track them down and give > them a call. No need to reinvent the wheel... And Lambeth are doing it too.

Nigello Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Ruined lives? Such hyperbole serves nobody well. Probably you have never lived alone, with a chronic disease, waiting for your three or four carers at different times of the day and night, who turn you in bed, lift you and bathe you and toilet you, followed by food and the reverse. These people are paid by the visit and when they are held up in traffic jams to get to their client, they are going to start telling their bosses that they are not willing to lose money (on basic anyway I bet) and will look for other clients. Now before you use hyperbole as a word again, I can tell you there are many people like that inside what is known as Area B, and probably everywhere else too, but seemingly people wanting to have clean air for everyone forgets that not all of the older population will ever benefit.

slarti b Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > May be interesting to ask how long the new > chairman and other members have belonged to the > Dulwich Society. You would never get that info revealed. (I don't blame them for that by the way, but I reckon the membership is peripheral to the needs of a few local "leaders")

KatyKoo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > slarti b Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > Now, please answer my questions: > > - are Dulwich Village, Townley, Court Lane > Calton > > "Rat runs"? > > - If you close those roads, which roads do you > > think the displaced traffic should use instead > > - Is it right to displace increase congestion > and > > pollution and displace traffic onto the "main" > > roads which, in the case of Soutwark are oftern > > residential and shopping streets as well. > > Becuase that is the effect of these changes nd > > indeed the OHS scheme on which they were based. > > > > I look forward to your reply > > Clearly we will have to agree to disagree. > But in answer to your questions those roads have > had severe congestion on them for years, closing > the junction will cause some displacement > initially - nobody disputes that. From what I see > daily the congestion on DV, EDG and LLane is > levelling off to more or less what it was before > the junction closure. The data will tell. > I would like to see traffic reduced on those roads > too even if it does settle to the same levels as > before the closures. > Townley road is at times worse - but more > restrictions coming soon to sort that out. > > If you believe in data and evidence - we'll just > have to wait and see what the traffic counts say. If the traffic isn't moving because it is jammed, then how will those results prove the traffic is worse? Oh, hold on.................

We all know the various campaigns - Southwark Cyclists, Living Streets, Safe Routes to School, Clean Air for Dulwich, Mums for Lungs, all are also local cycling people and we know they have pushed and pushed for solutions that impact on them positively, and everyone else negatively. They are not willing to reach a compromise, and never were. I'm a member of the Dulwich Society and am fast losing patience with a group that sub text their name with: "The Society?s aims and objectives are to foster and safeguard the amenities of Dulwich, both in the interests of its residents and the wider local community of which it is a part, and to increase awareness of the varied character that makes the area so special." Clearly they are not as they supported the closure of the Calton Avenue junction immediately ruining the lives of hundreds who now have to sit in traffic jams in Lordship Lane, East Dulwich Grove, the A205 and Croxted Road, thanks to the junction and free passage being shut off. And from the latest Magazine: "Travel and Environment Chair retires Alastair Hanton has stood down as chair of the Society's Travel and Environment Group after 30 years. He has been a very active member since the late 1960s, working on its early campaign over the introduction of the Scheme of Management, and was at different times, both treasurer and secretary, but he is best known as a tireless campaigner for the improvement of pedestrian facilities and cycling infrastructure in the local area."....."In the wider context he was a trustee for the London Cycling Campaign for many years and in 2004 he founded Southwark Living Streets. This led to him being heavily involved in the initial attempts to create a pan-London umbrella group which culminated in London Living Streets being established in 2016. Perhaps his main achievement, though, has been his success in encouraging local children to walk and cycle to school. He was active in the Safe Routes to School group and was instrumental in the provision of additional pedestrian crossings in Dulwich Village, Half Moon Lane and Burbage Road, and the installation of designated cycle lanes. To many younger environmental campaigners, he has been a much-appreciated mentor - he has shared ideas and showed by example what could be done. We wish him well in his "retirement"." Unfortunately his influence carries part of the blame for the situation we all now find ourselves. Either like me, cut off if I need to get out and having to sit in traffic jams or re-arrange appointments in the future to fit with the camera times, or like people in Burbage, the Village and Turney Road who are going to face a lock in, or lock out for five hours a day. Pity the businesses, pity the housebound ill waiting for their carers, pity the disabled who will take far longer now to get anywhere, I could go on. Travel and Environment Subcommittee changes: "Following Alastair Hanton's retirement, Pamela Monblat the secretary has also stepped down after 15 years' service. She has made a major contribution to the efficient running of the subcommittee and we are very grateful to her. Three other long-standing members have also retired, Isaac Marks, Jeremy Nicholson and Rosemary Dawson and we are also very appreciative of their contributions." Yes, a clean out of the old guard. "Three new members have joined the committee including a new secretary, Katy Savage. The new subcommittee chair, who will be put forward at the next AGM, is Harry Winter. Harry is a tax barrister and has lived in Dulwich for 25 years going to school locally. He is currently vice chair of the Herne Hill Forum and is a keen proponent of air quality, safe and healthy travel, and environmental issues generally." So this committee has been taken over by cyclists. Time the Dulwich Society started counting its members to check they are not dropping away.........

Abe_froeman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Metallic, we had it on here that emergency > services would be consulted: > > > " ed_pete June 06, 12:49PM > > "But, isn?t it a coincidence that many of the > measures they wanted to implement long, long > before Covid just happen to somehow be exactly the > right ?Fix? for the current situation?" > Spot on. This is opportunism of the worse kind > dressed up as listening to concerned residents. > The 70% number is meaningless and shouldn't be > quoted as justification unless it was achieved > fairly and can be thoroughly audited. > I presume the emergency services are OK with this > btw." > > Posted by jamesmcash June 06, 03:53PM > > > ed_pete > Yes emergency services need to be consulted before > any measures like this are put in." > > > And: > > > Posted by first mate June 25, 08:01AM > > James, > > Is MG having planters as well as concrete bollards > now or just the former? Are the planters easily > moved for emergency vehicle access? > Planters > > > Posted by jamesmcash June 30, 11:46AM > > > first_mate - not sure of details re emergency > services, but as I said before these things do > have to be agreed with them" > > > So you would think it safe to take this as > confirmation that the council had consulted and > agreed all these measures with emergency services > in advance. Well they clearly didn't tell their emergency vehicle drivers then. And I do not believe they would go along with it, fortunately I have heard of someone who has made enquiries and he is waiting the definitive answer.

I've seen a bit on twitter from cyclists "knowing" that emergency services were contacted about the closures, but it is clearly not true. I think we have all seen ambulances three point turning over the area. I know of someone who was being helped by paramedics who told her that they had not been able to get to a house call the day before because of planters and not being informed beforehand. They are all sitting in traffic jams because the roads are so narrowed for cycle lanes that there is nowhere to pull in to allow these vehicles past. This will be happening in this area, very soon. Let's hope they are not on the way to your mum or granny, fervent cyclists.

Still so many adults cycling on the pavement! If you are with your child it is perfectly easy to keep level with him or her whilst being a few feet away on the road. Yesterday I took an earlier walk than usual just to have a look at cycling behaviour and was appalled to see how many adult cyclists are weaving in and out of pedestrians, often with dogs or small children, on pavements through EDG, Dulwich Village (the worst examples), and even in the park where there is a SHARED pathway.

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Same here Sanda. And we take the kids to clubs at > Dulwich Sport's Centre at weekends and now cycle, > as do many others. There are definitely signs that > the LTNs are encouraging some (who can) to ditch > the car for certain journeys. "who can".

northernmonkey Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Didn't think it was particularly controversial to > be honest - so couldn't imagine why you wouldn't - > but in terms of the lamenting about the problems > for the post office, seems like theres been an > obvious easier fix for years than them driving > across the pavement. I don't think I have seen the van drive over the pavement but maybe someone will see this exchange and arrange for a loading bay as of course the whole set of shops is in need of a delivery space, apart from all the estate agents of course.

Yes, I agree. Don't faint.

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote: > > The Royal Mail van wasn't allowed to double park > or drive across the pavement, as happened > previously. Nothing has changed, apart from your > desire to find another problem with the closure. Did you see how busy the post office got last Christmas? Clearly not. And as for it being your local pharmacy? Maybe not. But drugs are delivered twice a day and if these delivery/collection drivers have to drive the long way round to find a legal spot to park - bear in mind double yellows will soon be there - the PO will say they cannot collect the parcels or make drugs deliveries.

Dogkennelhillbilly > > The point I'm making is he can't even double park > now because of the yellow box. Keep up. >The point is that the guy just pulls in front of the planters and stops, as he has done every day since they went in. >Keep up. Yes but before the drivers were not blocking the twixt planter route. Now they encroach on the yellow box and therefore commit an offence under the RTA.

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Metallic Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Balham Post Office has stopped receiving > parcels > > from customers because the new road system > means > > the collection van can't get near it. > > Now we have a gorgeous yellow box in the > Village > > (is there to be a camera??) right up to the > > planters, the collection of parcels may be a > > problem here too. Ditto delivery of essentials > to > > the pharmacy. Once the double yellow lines are > in > > and there is nowhere to park for these > essential > > services, can someone with a cargo bike do the > > deliveries for the PO and pharmacy? > > > The post office van pulls up and double parks to > pick up and drop off post at the post office at > the same time every day, as it has done ever since > the closure was put in. This is not much different > from what happened before when they stopped > illegally on the corner almost every day as there > was never an available parking space in front of > the shops. > > Of course, this could be easily fixed by making > 1-2 parking spots in of the shops delivery only. The point I'm making is he can't even double park now because of the yellow box. Keep up.

Balham Post Office has stopped receiving parcels from customers because the new road system means the collection van can't get near it. Now we have a gorgeous yellow box in the Village (is there to be a camera??) right up to the planters, the collection of parcels may be a problem here too. Ditto delivery of essentials to the pharmacy. Once the double yellow lines are in and there is nowhere to park for these essential services, can someone with a cargo bike do the deliveries for the PO and pharmacy?

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Metallic Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > It occurred to me last week that many of the > > cycling families taking their children to > school > > won't have time to do it when they have to > start > > their own work commute again. It will be back > to > > unwilling nannies and au pairs round in > SE21/SE22 > > until it gets too wet and cold, and dark. > > > NB this is a theory you've invented entirely in > your own head. It is a theory. (Unless everyone in this area is self employed or can do flexible hours.) I certainly had to start work before my kids would have to leave for school and so did my husband.

Abe_froeman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This is also farcical, given what is going on: > > "Goose Green primary school expressed concern > about the effect of the zone on recruitment of > staff who wish > to drive to their workplace" We could advise them currently: On yer bike!

JohnL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My employer (and many) is flexible on that sort of > thing (families, school etc.) You are lucky but as it seems we are shutting up shop again I suppose the family cycling to school and the shops will continue.

It occurred to me last week that many of the cycling families taking their children to school won't have time to do it when they have to start their own work commute again. It will be back to unwilling nannies and au pairs round in SE21/SE22 until it gets too wet and cold, and dark.

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "All these stories of people cycling to the gym, > or the cafe - nothing to do with real life" > > Yes. No-one outside Dulwich Village goes to gyms > or cafes. Well they stay local. Who knows anyone who goes to a gym further than a mile away and certainly not "up the hill". And why can't these gyms have members who have to drive to them from further afield?

"Posted by rahrahrah Yesterday, 02:19PM A lot more people cycling their kids to gymnastics in the Village. I?ve heard several comments along the lines of ?decided to cycle as it?s so much easier now?. I know it?s only anecdote and many will swear it?s made up, but it is what I?ve heard (including from one of the helpers there who also commented on how many more people cycling). Anyway, these are the types of changes in behaviour that take a little time but start feeding through." All these stories of people cycling to the gym, or the cafe - nothing to do with real life, unless you live in a Village bubble and want nothing to do with the great world outside it. I expect you and your kids could cycle to Greenwich Park but it would exhaust them for coming back here, for example. Or a museum....... Oh and forget the small businesses who come to repair your roof, electrics, washing machine, or do your garden because obviously you will have a little help (!!) or your mum's carers etc. They are not in your bubble are they? Just Au Ciel and that wretched piece of ground called Dulwich Square. Just open that block at Court lane and let traffic spread out a little, relieve all the bottlenecks on East Dulwich Grove and Lordship Lane, at a stroke.

EDguy89 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > macutd Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > it's not a "rat run" it's just a street in East > > Dulwich that enables people to get about > without > > having to clog up the roads that are left in a > > dangerous and polluting way. > > It absolutely was a rat run. I've been living on > the southern side of Melbourne Grove since 2016 > and it was used constantly as a way for people to > bypass LL. > > Often times people would speed by simply because > they could. The difference in the amount of > traffic on this end has been like day and night. It is a road from A to B. Like nearly all others, it is a road used by everyone probably since the place was created. But nimbyism is actually alive and well and created for a few people at the expense of the population. Like my road. We never asked for what we are about to get. Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and followed that up? No.

thebestnameshavegone Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > heartblock Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I passed the planters in ?Dulwich Square? on my > > walk from a very busy EDG to the park. They > were > > as dry as a bone and most of the plants were > dead > > or dying. If EDG is made into a lovely traffic > > free road, I will be happy to water our > planters. > > Don't forget that a grown man / woman from One > Dulwich spent some of their free time tearfully > throwing the plants in those planters into the > road 5 or 6 times since they got put in because > they were upset about their journey taking an > extra 10 minutes. > > I'm not surprised they look worse for wear Unless you saw this I suggest not repeating hearsay. And if you saw it, why not photograph the person doing it?