RosieH

Linda Robson from Birds of a Feather once ran over my foot quite vigorously with her pram in selfridges with nary an apology, and she's proper common. However, I'm sure there is something in the fact that, rightly or wrongly, when it's an ED yummy mummy guzzling chablis while little Tristram runs riot, the perception is that she feels a smug middle class sense of entitlement to behave without regard for others. In that situation, I confess I'd probably judge her more harshly than I would a mum struggling to get her pram and three rowdy kids and all her shopping onto the bus outside Morrisons before the driver shuts the doors. Not in the least to do with envy, more thinking she's got all the time in the world to sit on her pilates-toned arse, but none to teach her children good manners. Manners cost nowt, as my old nan used to say.

can I ask a question here, because I've often wished for a child-free zone, not because I don't like kids, I really do, but because some of them seem to be allowed to run riot, which is possibly what grates for us hung-over non-parents. I went to restaurants from a really young age and was always really well behaved because my parents made me (that may have since changed) so I was wondering is this riotous behaviour just kids' normal rambunctiousness, or are there a few mums and dads who just can't be bothered to make sure their kids behave? and do other parents among you sometimes look and tut and think, mine would never act like that, or do you sympathise because it's probably knackering?

Ok sorry, this is a really emotive subject and I didn't mean to piss anybody off. I in no way intended to suggest that you don't care about children and apologise unreservedly if that was your interpretation. I'm talking about the media nonsense. Also I'm not calling anybody a murderer, but I think your comment that those parents are not murderers demonstrates a little bit of what I'm talking about. How on earth can you know that? What have you based that bald statement on? Gut instinct? The fact that we really "know" the family based on page after stomach-churning page of media coverage? The fact that it's unthinkable that any parent could do such a thing? Newspapers exist to make money, not for a public good. They're about whipping us into a frenzy to increase advertising revenue. They do that by making their stories bigger and bolder than their competitors. We all know all of this, but it's easy to forget in the middle of a story as emotive as this. If they really were about the greater good, they wouldn't have pushed for a UK equivalent of Megan's law, when studies have shown that it would do more harm than good. There'd be pages 1-11 devoted to the outrage that around 2 children a week die at the hands of a family member, not instead of, but as well as coverage of more high profile, "stranger" cases. But there isn't, because it doesn't sell papers. And we buy the papers.

excellent thanks. I'll give it a go, even if my knowledge of Alf Ramsay or canals and waterways of the north east are a little below par: I get the feeling the forumites have it all sewn up...

are you kidding me? you don't think it's a all just a little bit out of control? No I don't buy the media I'm referring to, but I'm very aware of what's in them. and the page 12 thing - that really happened - pages 1-7 devoted to speculation and grisly details of a mystery child murderer; page 12, single column, 12 year old girl stabbed to death by her father. it makes me pretty mad and wonder where our priorities lie

Does anyone know where he went? He was great. I don't know if the quiz was pulled because not enough people went, but I really enjoyed it the couple of times I went down there. Failing any further information, does anyone know of another good local(ish) pop quiz?

it's all just horrible, but the ghoulish media / public feeding frenzy only serves to hype the horror to a state of unfathomable hysteria. I make no comment on the involvement or otherwise of the parents in this case, but the fact is that most murdered children are killed by a family member, not an opportunistic stranger. And that's what we should all be up in arms about, but we're not, because all too often such stories are buried in a single column on page 12, because they don't wield such a frenzied grip on the popular imagination. and yes, some parents will lie for each other to cover things up. the grotesque and quasi-titillating exploitation of this little girl's tragedy says something nasty about our desire to believe in a mythical bogeyman, and not enough about genuine concern for the welfare of children

i went to Sainsbury's pharmacy to speak to the pharmacist about something rather personal. they have a little room for just such personal conversations (or so I'm led to believe). The pharmacist invited me behind the counter (i thought to go into the room) but then proceeded to discuss my question rather loudly from my new vantage point of next to the till, piquing the interest of the many ladies (and a few surprisingly bearded gentlemen) shopping for Rimmel lipsticks. they've got a room people! I have never been embarrassed in such a manner when buying steak from William Rose - not even when the rather dashing mediterranean looking one made some kind of well-hung gag - and that is why I shall continue to shop there, and not at Sainsbury's pharmacy (unless it's Sunday and the only place open)

well le chandelier encourages parents with kids into the middle section, so up front and upstairs you should be ok (they're also currently working on a more extensive evening menu if you're looking for the full-on dining experience) Franklins is usually pretty good - it's not 100% child-free, but the menu isn't that kid-friendly so that might be what keeps them out...

maybe we're all so uptight about chip shops that even our nasal passages have contracted and we can no longer smell the delicious chip fat mmm, chip fat. might nip in for a takeaway tonight

hmm, it's getting a bit heated in here. I'd just like to say that I really like the Sea Cow, even though their chips have gone downhill, they're still better than any other chips I've found in East Dulwich (please feel free to disabuse me - I do like chips). And I like being able to have a bottle of wine with my haddock. And actually, looking at the haddock first, before it goes in the fryer might be an affectation, but at least you know it's COOKED fresh (frozen or no, it hasn't been sitting under a heat lamp for hours). And surely the whole cost debate is slightly redundant because you're not comparing like with like - they're cheaper than getting fish and chips from the Ivy, which I believe is also a restaurant selling the deep fried deliciousness. BUT: Ted Max - your comment about the extractor fans is fundamentally flawed - have you ever come out of there not stinking of chip fat? I haven't, but I don't mind it. Where I come from (in the north where we're no better than we ought to be and chips are good and Morrisons is king and we despise poncey southerners with their Sainsburys and ohmygodhaveyouseentheprices, Waitrose) it's considered on a par with Chanel No. 5. AND: I miss the banter I used to get from Mr Elaine's, who told me about his son's circumcision party (bad at sums but good at trumpet) and used to say of his chips "make 'em little, make 'em good".

and lowers the tone completely

I was hoping for a dark overlord

Don't need valium, we're getting the White Company (ah, that's another thread).

I've heard that a little antihistamine sends them right off to sleep...

I'm with simon. I make no bones about being lazy, but am I missing something: do we actually NEED to buy our clothes locally? We're only in zone 2 - if any of you are stuck I can recommend some very fine clothiers that have a fine array of non-identikit garb that won't leave you looking like a refugee from Clapham. And only a bus ride away Ye gads - the white stuff - my heart is sinking

the Orrery's very fine if it's romance you're after - food's delicious (it's a cliche but the chocolate fondant I had there was one of the sexiest things I've ever eaten) Or for a more decadent ambience, Les Trois Garcons. gorgeous food. sumptuous and slightly deranged interior

I think it's moved to Northcross Road now - they have a table outside with maraccas and be-staved tea towels thanks for the ideas. am lazy and went for booze (cachaca from Nicolas in case you care) - but these help enormously for the next birthday / Christmas

brilliant thanks - that shop keeps getting better and better

Ok, so I started trying to read through the whole thread but my eyeballs hurt. I'm putting together a list of local celebs I want to target for some charidee work - I want locals that have a vested interest in the kids in the area. I use the term "area" loosely - obviously I don't think the well-nourished, long haired young offsprings of Dulwich and its environs need my help - thinking more in terms of our south london neighbours. Anyway, I need people who might merit a photo in the press - from what I can see so far, I've got: Des'Ree, Timothy Spall, Jenny Eclair, Nesbitt, Jo Brand, Adrian Lester (do we think he local, or tourist)? anyone add any more?

AnotherPaul Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That's an incredibly snotty comment from said > designer. "?the british public (who have no > taste)?". Boo! ha, you know it to be true though - only we in ED (or him in Richmond) have good taste. outside our hallowed borders I've heard they like X Factor and Big Brother and Comic Sans and the Daily Mail

AnotherPaul Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > hi Rosie, please, this can't be compared with the > tube map. That was original, perfectly fulfilled > it's function and upset some folk because it was > thought too abstract. We know that's guff now but > that doesn't mean this olympic brand will follow > the same journey from ridicule to adoration. ok, I'm not going to win this one am I? Clearly it's not the tube map, but neither is it entirely without merit. and it's got people talking at least... you wait and see, some of them will say good things - a designer friend of mine (see I know something about it too) captured my sentiments: "it?ll probably grow on me, but I?m hating the way the british public (who have no taste) are getting all knee-jerk- arsey over a logo, and start demanding that the old logo (which truly was bland rubbish) is reinstated"

hell, in five years time it'll be a design classic - was the tube map considered "pleasant" when it was first launched? work of bloody genius... and I repeat, it's INTERACTIVE - you can download it and play with the shapes and colours - that's got to appeal to the kids (or is it just me?) frankly all of us are far too old to be taking part in 2012, but the youth, our unspoiled golden promise of tomorrow - they're the ones that matter here

maybe I did, or just maybe I think it's pretty fabulous

hey, don't knock it: it's vibrant, dynamic, interactive and inclusive.