Blah Blah

Both lidl and aldi are great. Either would be a great addition.

Parkdrive. The only reason the thread has developed into a discussion is because of the negative posts of a couple of people early on. The discussion has been well meaning and polite. And then you pop up, attacking someone for posting a reply to a question asking for information on Turkey's involvement with rebel armed groups, like ISIL. Their human rights record is one reason the EU has held off on inclusion. Of course they are not the only nation on the planet with 'issues' of that nature, but there is also nothing wrong in pointing out how that might contribute to the experiences or views of refugees or migrants, especially as Turkey is on the front line of escape to Europe. If you read most of the comments on this thread you'll find pretty much every one agrees with your view that Europe should do more. So chill :)

I think that's a bit unfair Parkdrive. All that LadyDeliah and others have tried to do is give insight into the many impacts of ISILs advance. Of course Hungary and Poland are behaving shamefully, and they are being exposed for it. What people may not understand however is just what is going on in the middle east. It isn't just ISIL at war, there are other rebel groups at play, backed by regional governments, all adding to the instability of the region and the displacement of people, both deliberately and by default.

That's sad to read Uncleglen :(

And to also say that this happens to elderly people through email scams etc who are duped into handing over bank details and causes great distress and sometimes hardship. So yes, more should be done to catch culprits rather than just saying 'the money is returned so it's ok'.

Pommie. We have something called a welfare system that is supposed to make sure no-one a)starves and b)is left homeless. This government have by their reforms forced people into both of those situations. It's a completely seperate issue to helping geniune refugees fleeing war. But there are people, journalists and social service and health officials continuously lobbying government to try and make them acknowledge the harm they are doing to our own poorest and most vulnerable citizens. It's falling on deaf ears. And yes I do find a kind of hypocrasy in that a photo of a drowned toddler shifts public opinion and foces a government response, when reports of 40 - 80 suicides and the death of 2500+ people within weeks of being found fit to work by ATOS (figures the government tried to hide) has resulted in no shift of public sympathy and no shift in Ian Duncan Smiths policy or thinking. But there ya go. I of course have great sympathy for both our own poor and refugees.

Good work Fizzy.

This is why Turkey can't be a member of the EU.

I went through this some years back. You must report it to the Police and get a crime number. You then take that crime number back to your bank and fill out relevant forms, cancel cards etc (if not already done). The bank should then refund you with the stolen money with six weeks.

Pommie, they'd been in a Turkish refugee camp for two years after fleeing bombing in their homeland. The conditions in these camps are not good, with new refugees arriving every day. If you take a look at a map of the affected areas, ISIL have moved through an area half the size of Europe. THAT is why we are seeing a refugee exodus that is the biggest since WW2.

It's actually the council contractor APCOA that issue the no tax clamps and then inform the DVLA (who issue the fine). APCOA will only tow the vehicle if it looks like it's worth something (i.e if they can sell it or it looks like the owner might pay to collect it). The abandoned vehicle notice just requests the owner to claim ownership. The vehicle can not be towed if the owner does get in touch. And if they don't, it can be sent to the scrap yard right away, therefore reducing APCOAs costs (ie no storage involved).

That's a good point and good suggestion DaveR. Maybe Eileen can make use of that?

That's interesting Loz and makes perfect sense. Because also, the father of the poor toddler had paid 5000 (whatever the currency is) to a traffiker to get his children safely accross the water. We need to take the criminals out of the equation, and taking refugees directly from centres would go a long way to doing something about that.

This is true but opposition is the way to establish a big enough involvement to have an impact on what does end up there, rather than only getting involved down the line when the process is much further along and more difficult to affect.

Confirmed my point above Steveo. Sadly it does take a tragic image to wake a lot people up. Shouldn't be that way of course, but that's how it is. But I also think Davic C and his party have been hypocrits. Now that the public mood is changing they suddenly have backtracked on their stance of not taking more refugees, something they were making very clear until that photo. They are not ill-informed, so they have no excuse. It's partly the job of government to raise awareness when making decisions for the right reasons, not to react only when the public might not like them in sufficient numbers.

Thank you for that post LadyDeliah. The media have been pretty bad at explaining the various political/ conflict reasons behind what is happening. People really do need to understand the dynamics of the current situation before making judgements on who these people are and why they are fleeing. I agree Loz. I think the shift in public consciousness is important as well. As well as accepting our share of refugees, we need to make sure they are not subjected to poor treatment by the public (or otherwise) when they so arrive here. And I think you malumbu demonstrate just how affected any decent person is by this crisis. I think the images of the drowned toddler washed up on a beach has really hit home to a lot of people who perhaps didn't really give it a lot of thought before.

Louisa, also have a look at the map at the top of this article. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27838034 As you can see from that, ISIL have cut Syria in two. So people to the north of that line are limited in where they can travel to escape. This is why the mediterranean is the escape route. The Syrian Army still controls south of the ISIL front line. And there is absolutely no doubt that USA and UK actions in Iraq have led to this, none whatsoever.

Louisa, you have no way of knowing where and why the people of Calais have come from. But those dealing with them do and they say different to you. And did you really just suggest Isreal takes in Syrians? Do you have no knowledge of the history between Isreal and Syria?

Language is often one reason why migrants go where they do. Just on numbers, it's not practical to enforce the 'country of arrival rule' when there are so many fleeing. Do we really expect Italy to take them all for example? Just because WE don't happen to border a war torn country doesn't mean we have to behave like it's nothing to do with us. It wasn't the rest of Europe who sucked ass with America and created the void that ISIL have stepped into. * crossed post with Dave C but totally agree with him.

Louisa, Newsnight has just shown images of a toddler, a baby washed up dead on an Italian (I think) beach. FFS stop being a spoilt 'poor me' idiot. You live in a country that looks after you. You have free education and healthcare and pensions (paid from your and other people's taxes, including people who have no children or use private healthcare or pensions). 53% of all income tax is paid by just 10% of the workforce. THEY help subsidise your needs. People do not choose to be born into tyranical societies or war zones. They are ordinary human beings like you and I, and they are at the bottom of the pile, a bottom that no-one in this country has to endure. When you next turn on your light switch ask yourself this. Where does the fuel come from to provide that? Blair and Bush thought they had a perfect right to invade Iraq to protect our access to resources like oil and that's why a baby ends up washed up on an italian beach. Don't you even dare label my compassion as middle class do goodery. My compassion comes from my conscience, something you clearly don't have.

No Miga, New Labour significantly reduced the deposit for right to buy and got the desired result of less homes sold. The coalition came in and increased it again to the biggest it's ever been of ?100k. I know who is the better party on addressing housing need. Having said that, both parties have failed to replace lost social housing. And on the 4000 miga. Those ARE real figures recorded by the DWP. They know those figures because peoples claims stop when they die. Every single one of those people had appealed and were awaiting a decision or tribunal. Nothing to do with sensational journalism. Why can't you just accept the facts, that the welfare reforms HAVE harmed people. Jeremy you miss the point. These are people who were already ill and found not ill enough by ATOS in an assessment that has nothing to do with medical considerations. The person who makes the decision, is not medically trained, never meets the client, nor asks his or her doctors for information. That's why so many tribunals find in favour of the client. Atos on the other hand were paid ?500+ for every person they failed, but didn't have to pay any of it back if that decision was overturned at tribunal (as half the failures were). You really don't have any understanding of the process do you? It sets ill and vulnerable people up to fail. Miga, both Nick Stanton (Liberal) and Kim Humphries (Conservative) worked for Lendlease - that's the previous council leader btw and the councillor for housing.

Here we go again. No-one is demanding you to donate anything Salsaboy or Uncleglen, but posting comments designed to discourage others from doing so is just despicable. Meanwhile I can get 20 pairs of mens socks from Primark for a tenner and am happy to go buy some stuff to donate at the weekend. I don't know what the situation is with the French authorities, and their provision for them. Or if the Red Cross could get involved. But until something is sorted I will just remind myself how lucky I was to be born in an affluent, developed country (one that became so by enslaving half the world) and be thankful it's not me freezing at Calais.

Don't dirt bikes use the same petrol and diesel as them things we call cars and busses and lorries that drive all around us every hour of the day? Of course that group of 30 wearing balaclavas were on an antisocial pursuit (where have I said otherwise?), but you all know as well as I do that peer pressure plays a huge part in that. Early engagement does stop things getting to that point 90% of the time and youth clubs have disappeared, along with mentoring schemes and other forms of engagement that had good success rates.

Of course not ANYTHING! But equally niaive is the idea that an interest is only appealing if it has some element of antisocial or illegal behaviour. I would be willing to bet that if there were a legal scrambler track locally where things like competitons take place, that a fair number of those young people would go there instead. It's the thrill of the activity that appeals I'd argue. I grew up on a farm, and I and my friends had 50cc scramblers. But we also had land we could ride on, and do jumps and things with no issue to anyone. It's too easy in dense urban areas to demonise an activity as opposed to looking at engagement and opportunity.

The E&C deveolpment was first put together under the liberal/ con coalition council (and some of those lib and con councillors involved were given jobs by Lendlease when they lost their seats!). And there are equal examples of poor council management from parties of all colours. The processes and legal constriants are the same for all of them. That is policy set by government. When you have a government and mayor who think selling off social housing to give way to corporate private development should be favoured over social homebuilding, that's what you get. The evidence of those in the front line isn't anecdotal. There are real issues affecting millions. Three days ago, the DWP finally published the figures that the ICO ordered them to. Figures that Ian Duncan Smith stood up in parliament and said didn't exist (so a deliberate lie). 4000 people died within six weeks of being told they were fit to work by the governments work capability assessment. So these are people who had serious health conditions, not long from death, being incorrectly told they are not eligible for disibility benefits. I can not think of any other arena where the impact on so many people would not lead to a public enquiry! As for IDS, he is a proven liar, from the fictitous educational section on his CV to consistently lying in the houses of parliament about figures and data - all things widely reported by the media at the time. I don't understand why he is still in the job. He's a narcissistic sociopath.