brum

MM - you are quite right that all fire officers start off as firefighters, however, just like the military, even the Fire Commissioner has a politician for a boss! I think that is where a lot of the distrust lies. DJKQ/Pearson - sorry, but do you argue just for the sake of it? You two really are talking about something you know so very little about.

Have you the evidence to back your claims, DJKQ? Unless you do, how can we believe you?

It seems to me that some posters here are quite prepared to accept that a reduction in overnight fire cover is a necessary consequence of the public sector cuts. In London, you get a very speedy response to a call, normally within 5 minutes. People living in more rural areas aren't so lucky - it can take over 20 minutes. If this is the case, that London residents are content with longer attendance times - then that's fine. But please bear in mind that in today's homes it can take only 5 to 8 minutes for a fire to develop from a single flame to a raging inferno. Politicians are driving through this change agenda. That in itself should ring alarm bells. (excuse the pun!) By the way, with all this talk of fires, its a good time to check your smoke alarms are working.

Thanks for the clarity DaveR, though you are still wrong to suspect that firefighters are acting for purely selfish reasons. They care about the service they provide and feel that the sacking threat is bullying them into accepting changes which could seriously affect that service. To suspect the motives are for selfish reasons is being incredibly disingenuous to the firefighters.

Thank you to those posters above for showing your support - it is truly valued. Iancoubert - you are right, breathing in the products of combustion (soot, dust, toxic fumes etc) over a long period of time can be very damaging. A lot of retired firefighters die too young due to respiratory diseases - my dad being one of them. The problems often arise after the fire is extinguished and we do 'damping down and turning over' which kicks up a lot of nasty stuff we breathe in. These days the policy is to wear breathing apparatus however in reality it is not designed for wearing during such physical activities as chopping away, sawing, shovelling etc. so firefighters seldom wear it. Normal respirators aren't ideal either, in that they shouldn't be worn in oxygen starved atmospheres. A lightweight short-duration BA set may be the answer but it's expensive. Sorry, I digress!

No it doesn't sound more real at all. I just know firefighters and you clearly don't. I have not mentioned anything about being heroes - they are your words, not mine. What I do know is that firefighting is a noble profession and those in it are dedicated professional people who, to put it bluntly, willingly put their own life on the line to save someone else. And they do that every time they go to work. And yes, I know that there are one or two other professions that do this, like the Police and I have an equal amount of respect for them. Yours and DaveR's sentiments are just a bit sad to me, because our men and women firefighters are not the sort of people you seem to think they are.

No DaveR, you're wrong. The proposals do not affect the 2 days, 2 nights, 4 'off' shift pattern which you refer to. Incidentally, the last night shift of the pattern currently ends at 9am on the first day of the 4 days off, so its not actually a day off. I'm sorry you have such a low view of firefighters. You too, Huguenot.

Like I said DJ, firefighters don't work in the same way as other emergency services or most other shift workers. This is just the nature of the beast. There are some night shifts that are so busy, there is no time to sleep. On others, not one emergency call is received and all is quiet. This clearly is good because it means the community is safe that night. However whether there are lots of shouts or none at all, the same level of response needs to be maintained. This is your insurance, and that is what you pay for in your taxes. These are long shifts but with a rest period it means that firefighters can cope. There just isn't a worthwhile argument to change the shifts, which have been operated for over 30 years now. Remember that this job is high risk. It can make extreme demands on the firefighter, physically and emotionally, and just keeping them awake for no real benefit doesn't make much sense. Did you know that not very long ago the average life expectancy for firefighters was just 55? The hours and working conditions have improved a lot since those days and it's important to maintain them now.

You're right to be suspicious, Applespider. These changes being pushed through are primarily politically motivated. The current shift system works because beds are available. The argument to remove beds is very dubious. In practical terms it serves no purpose to keep firefighters awake during the night. The other emergency services have a different role to firefighters, who may not be called out so frequently, but need to provide immediate, effective cover 24/7 because in a fire literally every second counts. Unfortunately some see the beds as a perk and should be removed. This has already happened in other brigades... and replaced with very expensive reclining chairs!

...and I learnt that Kingfisher in a Cobra glass just won't do!

*fetches nail varnish remover*

James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > I'm sure this status quo will remain but it is sad > that two schools have to bus kids to access sports > playing pitches rather than just one. Not just sad - it's barmy!

Thanks for the tip! Although my usual colour is bronze ;-)

titch juicy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > why? Have you never tasted the Bhuna in Nog?

Count me and LB in please. Hmmm what can I wear that's red...?

I admit to being baffled. In recent weeks I've regularly visited this park on weekday mornings and virtually every time I've seen school kids using the sports fields. These are kids usually arriving by coach. What is the difference, then, with kids from a school so close to the park, using the same facilities? Its barmy.

Someone wearing corduroy. Or a tracksuit. Or maybe a corduroy tracksuit. Nope - that's just silly.

We all have off days, but that does not mean you ignore your child behaviour Conversely, ignoring bad behaviour can actually be a good tactic to stop it happening again. If the child thinks that being bad gets them attention, they will repeat it.

fireman (ooerrr!)

Nothing from Rosie for a few hours now. Has she flipped and done what she first wanted to... that is, bump 'em all off? Is she now locked up in some sweaty police cell?

Crisps

He made me laugh so hard I would cry. And such a nice man too. He will be remembered for a very long time. Goodbye Norman.

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- >> I always keep my front door locked with the > mortice lock whilst I'm in the house, but I keep > the key in the door. > > My brother nearly died when a flat he was staying > at caught fire at night. The owner had locked the > front door, the key was not in it, they couldn't > get at the key and they couldn't get out. Sue - For the very reasons you give above, I strongly suggest you use a mortice lock with a turn-latch to lock the door from the inside, rather than by key. This way, you need not worry about being locked in if there's a fire. Keys have a tendency to go missing at just the vital time, as your brother found out...!

silverfox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Clicked on to this thread because I thought there > was a real fire in an arcade in Brixton. > > Me too! *puts away fire extinguisher*

Went to the show this morning and loved the entertainment laid on by a very talented team of circus artistes. Some of the acts are jaw-droppingly good. Shame there weren't more in the audience to give it a better atmosphere. So roll up roll up you gentle folk of ED and go and see the show. PS the Palamino horses were brilliant. PPS can I have my tenner now please, Mr Burton? (just kidding)