Huguenot

I can't get the fly-by details for last week, but these are the times that the ISS is visible in Wittering over the next few nights, along with other satellites. For those of you in East Dulwich, here are the times satellites are visible in ED. The ISS is the second brightest thing in the sky after the moon, and it flies by every 90 minutes. However most of the time at night it'll be in the Earths shadow. What Thomas Mickelwright will have seen is the transition from sunlight to shadow.

*Bob* - 6730 posts Huguenot - 4,961 posts Irony (Product no longer available) Pots, kettles, own petards.

It didn't take me long because it was me that questioned it first time around ;-) *Bob* obviously thinks I'm reading too much into it, but conversely I see a sustained strategy aimed at taking away personal freedoms to meet his objectives.

This is Thomas Mickelwright from October last year: "The quicker we understand what in Dulwich isn?t vegan, the quicker we can make it vegan!" There's no real talk there of simply having an opinion, he's quite clear that he wants to make us go vegan.

If Mickelwright thought that restaurants made their own minds up, then he wouldn't be lobbying them. If Mickelwright didm't want to take away our choice of what to eat, then he wouldn't be targeting restaurants at all. Since he posted on here, he clearly feels that increasing the size of his gang will increase the pressue on restauraters. This is the reality - the arguments in support of his behaviour contradict themselves.

Incidentally there is no freedom of speech applicable if Mickelwright has been campaigning using grotesque ideas, imagery or video - this would count as harrassment.

Thats' the whole point tj, he is using his own 'freedom' to take freedom away from other people. The freedom to choose their own moral position, and choose their food accordingly.

Still not getting it tj - I'm not criticising Mickelwrights convictions, and I'm not challenging his right to protest. If he wants to perition parliament I'll celebrate his commitment. I'm criticising his methods - subterfuge and manipulation to get his own way. I'm criticising his belief that this makes him heroic. I'm criticising his belief that his own views are more important that anyone elses.

The argument always holds up - when it comes to public issues we have a parliamentary process to go through regarding legislation preventing objectionable behaviour. If you're aware of issues surrrounding products produced using socially unacceptable methods then that's what publicity is for. We don't give license to individuals to act unilaterally acccording to their own whims, because there's an awful lot of people out there with some very strange convictions. I really don't get why this is so hard to understand.

It's irrelevant tj. Mickelwright is campaigning to take choice away from other people. He's not trying to persuade people of his personal convictions regarding Foie Gras, he's trying to cut off the lines of supply.

No. ;-)

There must be a deep well of sadness inside you *Bob*. I'm sorry your life lacks interest. Best of luck with that. In the meantime, pursuing me from one thread to another to toss insults is unedifying. Find some pride.

"Oh squealing self-important hissy-fit - again. " You seem quite incapable of judjing tone *Bob*. I suspect that's more to do with you than it is with me.

BTW, you're incorrectly asserting that coercion requires threats of violence. Coercion can be achieved in many ways - including reward. It simply means putting people under pressure.

No problem with Tom believing he's right, talking to others and persuading them. He isn't. He's targeting suppliers to prevent other people getting access regardless of whether they agree with him or not.

It's nothing to do with that BNG. The insult is that Mickelwright thinks he can act unilaterally to make other people conform to his beliefs. That's it. It's not about hurting geese or battery chickens.

You've just chosen your own interpretation Ted Max. I thought I was quite even-handed, with a touch of scorn. If Ridgley went nuclear that's up to her/him. If Ridgley didn't want me to infer from his/her post that s/he thinks middle class is a negative thing then s/he shouldn't cite them as part of a complaint. If s/he didn't want me to infer that she has a problem with the race of attendees, then s/he shouldn't cite the reduction of West Indians in the neighborhood as a problem. If s/he didn't want me to challenge her knowledge of history then s/he should check his/her facts. In fact the 'outside' Notting Hill Carnival was first started by the London Free School - a bunch of predominantly white middle class hippies. The Carribean element came from other events staged against racism in Kings Cross. One of the big drivers was Pink Floyd, being notable for the fact that they aren't from Trinidad and Tobago. The criticism of 'extension' for the month of August lacks transparency - in fact the proposal is that there should be other events that happen over this period classed as part of the festival. This doesn't mean 31 days of parades and people pissing on front lawns. None of this is relevant if you want to criticise it on the basis of being too white and middle class.

I have no objection to the substance of Mickelwright's complaint about Foie Gras. However, this is a red herring. Also a red herring is the question about battery chickens. I don't like that much either, but it's irrelevant. The question is whether the ends justify his means. It's quite easy to see that if this applied to any other situation it would be unaccceptable behaviour. I don't like privtae car ownership - is it okay for me to coerce retailers to prevent petrol being sold in ED? Clearly not. Hunt SABs? No. ALF? No. Anti-abortionists? No. Mickelwright? No. The irony is that all your 'context' is scoially responsible and democratic. I'm absolutely fine with it. Coercing restarauters is not.

Well I could do Ridgley, or alternatively you could look up the history of the carnival, steer clear of genetic assertions and stop having a go at people not in your self appointed class? You think you have a monopoly on being cross?

That's a bit harsh mockers, there waas real insight in that...

No, Moore, it can't. No-one else on this thread has gone to retailers trying to prevent them selling things to customers that he doesn't approve of. If Mickelwright had come on here offering his views on Foie Gras I would admire the 'courage of his convictions'. He didn't do that - he tried to prevent people buying things he didn't approve of by restricting their access. That's intolerance and manipulation. That's 'force'-ing people to fit in with him.

"how many of the original organiser or there descents still live in Notting Hill" [sic] Well, there you go - if NHC isn't racially pure, it's nothing apparently. Descents? What rubbish, it didn't even start until the 60s, and was created by immigrants fighting the woeful state of race relations. Barely one generation. There is a delicious f'cking irony in the racism and class war that it's being used as a vehicle for on this thread. "It is very much so middle class event now" Can't go far without some idiot calling it middle class as an insult. No fun when it's middle class eh? Is this a thread for rubbish? Can we call it the bin thread?

I love these threads, where a lot of blow-ins get uppity about their technical right to use the front of someone else's house as storage for a two ton heap of carbon sweating metal. If they did it with two tons of something else, they'd rightfully get a pop on the nose, what makes a 'car' any different?

Humble? Ballcocks. He runs a meeting group and flips around terms like martyrdom. He talks about himself in the third person. He claims 'we' when there is no 'we'. Five bucks says he looks in the mirror a lot. If he appears to be humble it's a sham. I got no problem with people who have a conviction and want to persuade people LadyD, but that's not Mickelwright. He doesn't give a halfpenny about your opinion, he wants to force you to fit in with him.

Quids is yer man. It's a class thing.