Huguenot

I love the fact that herbalists are "unlikely to receive serious consideration by any UK government in the foreseeable future" because it is "largely or completely of unproven benefit and should be regulated in terms of consumer protection". Most importantly it was blocked because "it failed to have the ?protection of the public as its primary concern?." Says it all really doesn't it? I wonder what the primary concern of this crowd really is? ;-) Getting rich off stressed victims possibly?

Once more for Brum, here's a list of the reasons given for the change of shifts. It recognises that the world had changed since the original shift periods were laid out, and more insight is available. Here's a few of the points regarding the changing world: - There are 48% fewer fires in London than there were ten years ago, attributed to better fire prevention education - Retail hours have changed from 9am - 5pm to an average of 8am to 8pm. - Shift changes are not now corresponding with demands upon the service. They LFB are now wiser to the effects of the current shift pattern: - Fire fighter fatigue from long shifts results in 'slowed reactions, poor judgement, reduced cognitive processing of information, and an inability to continue performing a task, or carry it out to a sustained high level of accuracy or safety - The HSE states that it is law that the employer takes these findings into accout when planning shift patterns irrespective of the employees desires - For the first 8/9 hours in a shift the risk of accident in firefighting is flat, but after 12 hours the risk doubles - 58% of calls happen during the nightshift, when the long hours and fatigue massively increase the risk of error. This needs to be corrrected. - The current working time directive recognises that when workers spend 18 hours awake (as they are forced to do frequently during the current shift patterns) the effect on risk is as high as that of a drunk driver. - The sleep deprivation created by the current shift patterns have a long term effect on firefighter health, particularly with obesity and digestive disorders. - The LFB is under a legal obligation to apply information it has to decrease risk and increase effectiveness in the workplace, to fail to do so would open them up to the kind of class action experienced by tobacco companies - The new patterns offer 7 hours more productive time to each firefighter per 4 shift period, increasing the efficiency of the brigade - The new patterns offer increased family time (i.e. when children will be awake) to firefighters from 11 hours per shift to 13 hours per shift - It enables staff to equably 'swap shifts' without offering unfair day/night exchanges In other words the proposed shifts are a closer match to modern society, offer less risk to firefighters, offer a safer community, offer more productive time per shift, offer more family time to firefighters, and make a positive contribution to their long term health. They're just better. The Union don't care that they're better, because they've sold firefighters up the river on this campaign based on politics.

"As far as im concerned the fire brigade is fighting against privatisation of it's service" So it's not about contracts, it's not about being sacked, and it's not about shift patterns then? "You knocker's will be happy when we end up like the U.S.A" So it's not about privatisation either? It's actually anti-americanism? How the hell did they get involved? Coleman's in the pay of Halliburton?

Sorry karter, cross-post. I get your point.

Jesus may have healed, if he existed as people imagined him to have done. It's nevertheless unlikely. Many senior religious figures don't believe that the Bible should be interpreted literally. I think even the most devoted of followers would still take their dear mum to a hospital rather than a church if she was caught up in a car crash, don't you? Is this just a weird tactic to say "If you believe in God, go homepathic"? We could probably get you some car window stickers.

To be fair, I don't think David had in mind Sanjeev Krishna and Plasmodium falciparum ATP6 when he made his observation. He would corrrectly consider this an exception rather than the norm. It's clearly the application of scientific method. If the residents of ED are going to a TCM practitioner it's more likely to be a snake oil peddler offering twig tea who knows nothing about evidence, and draws most of his/her conclusions by holding their palm above your centre of gravity.

Moflo, you've just contradicted your self in the same paragraph: "These strikes are because of the threat to sack. NOT because of changing shifts." Compare this with: "The ffs are striking because they believe that the 12/12 shifts will result in night closures of certain stations." So that's because of changing shifts right? The threat to sack is not related to night closures, its related to intransigence on behalf of ffs to change shifts to something more apprpropriate and economically sensibe for the 21st Century. If the ffs don't want new contracts, then they should be thinking about compromising instead of letting children suffer through negligence on Bonfire Night. The FACT is there are 48% less fires in London than there were 10 years ago. That this is down to fire prevention education and support, and that this is a wiser and more efficient way of spending ffs time than by sleeping through 30% of their paid salary time.

"my question was not answered about the thousands of people that suffer and die from these horrendous side-effects from allopathic medicine" It wasn't answered because it was a breathtakingly irresponsibile smear, and a gross misrepresentation of the argument. Evidence based medicine (EBM) can indeed sometimes fail to find an appropriate treatment, and in extremely unusual incidents have unintended side-effects. It is testament to the honesty and ambition of the industry that these are out in the open, with the evidence for all to see. Highlighting these incidents as a deliberate scare tactic to undermine EBM is in denial of the billions of people who are alive because of EBM, and frankly it's the kind of misrepresentation that could only be delivered by a scoundrel. It's like saying we shouldn't have a lifeboat service because they don't manage to save everybody, and some of those they did save got a broken arm getting into the lifeboat in 40 ft seas and Force 8 gales. Sheer moronity. The evidence of occasional failure in EBM is in vivid contrast to the serial dishonesty and cover ups from those practising more esoteric treatments. Frankly karter, you're trying to 'own' annaj's comments as if they were in support of your case, which they are plainly not. Annaj is simply pointing out that if many EBM treatments are generated from natural compounds then it would be foolish to rule out investigating Chinese herbs based on prejudice. I quite agree with her. This is effectively the application of scientific methodology to the study of TCM. It certainly doesn't support the blart rolled out in favour of Qi energy enhancement, and the deception and mendacity practised by it's adherents.

Absolutely right MM. Public sectors workers do NOT generate tax or pension revenue. Almost all salaries, perks, pensions, extended holidays are paid for by the income tax of those working in the private sector. Public sector 'taxes' and 'pensions' are merely recirculating tax revenues from private sector workers.

I wasn't trying to describe you Concita, I was talking about the obsession with crime that has populated three threads in very rapid succession. All of them deny the facts, and all of them escalate the crimes involve. For example earlier on someone said something similar to "I've been burgled, criminals get away with murder". Well, it was a burglary, not a murder. This is the way people talk when they're trying to create an air of panic. Try this definition of mass hysteria if you can't see what I mean: "The term also occurs in the phrase mass hysteria to describe mass public near-panic reactions. It is commonly applied to the waves of popular problems that "everyone gets" in response to news articles. A similar usage refers to any sort of "public wave" phenomenon, and has been used to describe the periodic widespread reappearance and public interest in [crime] " Crime has been flat, and even declining over recent years. Suddenly though, we have a wave of panic-stricken threads creating a 'wave' of threads on the forum. That's as near as possible to get to the definition of hysteria.

Concita, you appear to think the only people that are telling the truth are those that agree with you. Out of many crimes that go unreported, burglary is one of that doesn't. If you're burgled you get very anxious, there's no embarassment, and the police are the first to be called. On average 10 houses a month get burgled in East Dulwich. It means that twice a week you get a burglary. More often if you include all of the surrounding areas. However, there are 5,000 houses in the district and 25,000 more if you include the surrounding areas. That means on average you get burgled once every 39 years. Whilst it's distressing, it's not a crimewave. Really, this just needs to calm down, it's on the verge of becoming hysterical - in a medical sense.

The firefighters have refused to negotiate for five years, remove the section 188 dismissal and they'll still be refusing to negotiate in five years time. You don't know what the LFB want, you're just scaremongering and smearing senior management. Your 'statistics' on closure have been made up. How do firefighters expect to earn the support of the general public when they simply won't be honest with them?

Not only that Minkey, but you seem to have a complete misunderstanding of what being "shown to have broad health applications" actually means. In this case there have been a number of claims that have been made about Neem, but none have been substantiated or tested. Not only that but in their own words: "But toxicological activities such as allergic, genotoxic, cytogenetic and radiosensitizing effects have also been reported in humans" If you don't know what genotoxicity is, try this definition: "Genotoxicity describes a deleterious action on a cell's genetic material affecting its integrity. Genotoxic substances are known to be potentially mutagenic or carcinogenic, specifically those capable of causing genetic mutation and of contributing to the development of tumors. This includes both certain chemical compounds and certain types of radiation." You should be running scared for the bloody hills if someone offers you something that might have that effect. You use this as justification for witch doctor heebie-jeebie? Crazy. You can only discover the effects of Neem through a rigorous testing environment.

I think it's a real shame, and a signal of something deeply unhealthy in our society, that it has been commonplace for political debate to amount to little more than screaming 'LIAR LIAR' at people that we disagree with.

Shagging a nurse.... doh! Everyone's done that. :(

That'll be evidence based medicine then? Hurrah. I didn't know about the fatal side effects - this could make it a useful opportunity to bump someone off?

I don't think the problem with TCM is a lack of understanding, it's the complete lack of evidence that it has ever done what it claims to do - successfully treat illness. Hence the 'rip-off' element is that it doesn't do what you've paid for it to do. That's the problem with this observation of karter's: "When you get to Vietnam hopefully you will not need local remedies to help you with diarrhoea and parasites." Local mystical remedies are not capable of helping with diarrhoea or parasites; St. John's Wort isn't going to cure you of cholera, neither will a well-meaning middle aged housewife by waving her arms and hummming.

"[Landlords] don't have much leeway to lower the rent beyond the mortgage repayment." You've said this before. It was logically inconsistent then, and it's still logically inconsistent now. If they can't afford to pay the mortgage without high rents from HB tenants, then they can't afford them with no tenants either. They have to sell the property. On the macro scale it drives the market down and makes housing more affordable. I'm absolutely unrepentant in the view that people under the age of 35 should not be paid benefits to live in single dwellings. When you argue this is unfair it undermines the rest of your argument, becuase it makes HB appear to be an indulgence instead of a necessity.

Well, puke redirects to vomit on wikipedia.

Gosh, I didn't even know that could be done! Is there one for the PC?

I only brought it up because if you believe the bible is literally 'true', you don't require faith. I think the argument that it must be true because we have laws based on it is weak. Organised religion perdisposes society to cooperative hierarchies. It's convenient to base law on it.

Ace :))

"one of the reasons Beveridge introduced council (now social) housing was to ensure that employers could rely on labour living nearby in decent conditions" That'll be a business subsidy then? The taxpayer paying the wages that the business won't? That was why the idea of a 'welfare state' appealed to conservatives - it took plenty of the business costs like healthcare and accommodation and shifted them onto the taxpayer. Genius. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not against the welfare state, I just wish people would call a spade a spade etc. Besides, Beveridge came out with all sorts of silly ideas, so he's hardly a sage. His broad ambition was for the state to own the means of production - i.e. old fashioned Soviet-style socialism. Nobody liked him either ;-)

Ha ha! That made me laugh really hard! :)) I do apologise. *wipes tear from eye* I'm particularly impressed by the Edinburgh via Belfast option. However... Dusseldorf. Definitely. Apart from being the hometown of Kraftwerk (which is reason enough), I'm betting they do some great Christmas Fairs, and you can get fabulously pissed on quality beer.

Having been in a number of brawls, it certainly does give you a fair old rush. I didn't experience anything that suggested it would treat herpes, mind.