Huguenot

Well I'm not Christian - but I'm more responding to the fact that the OP was questioning the priorities of UK charitable giving. Specifically he questioned the balance between overseas and local giving. In this context an argument about whether charitable giving in general is good or not would be redundant, the OP has not challenged this. Instead I chose an alternative perspective - that overseas giving actually supports local causes by improving local economic conditions. The choice of charity should be down to where it does 'most good for the most people for the longest time'. This would include concepts such as the needs of the recipients, the efficiency of the organisation (how much cash reaches the root cause), its ability to meet its goals (for example local corruption), and an assessment of short term and long term benefits. There's nothing black and white about the answers to any of those questions, so I imagine the final choice of charities would include a good spread of organisations and causes.

Where are you getting this 2m figure from? There's no rule that says you can park across dropped curbs so long as there's a 2m gap. The point about parking across dopped curbs is that there is no grey area - you can't park across them. What you're proposing is that you can ignore the laws that you don't find convenient. Mayhem.

Not parking across dropped curbs isn't subjective, it's objective. You either were or you weren't. What you're actually doing is asking parking enforcement officials to take a subjective view, and let you off on the basis that granny can squeeze past. I think chaos would be the final outcome in that situation. My advice is to stick to the rules and don't park across dropped curbs. If that's too difficult, then sell the car.

So what about Crimewatch? Clearly not illegal. What about Police photofits published in newspapers? Clearly not illegal. Neither of these issues involves convicted felons, but you don't mind them? It's just a load of wishy washy ideological tosh. The crims are laughing at you.

If they weren't a thief then they can sue for defamation. If they are a thief then it's right and proper that they should receive the ignominy and disgrace that goes with that. Social pressure will have a lot greater deterrent on crime than prison sentences. In earlier less mobile societies crime was kept at bay by the tight social connections that existed. The anonymity of big cities has allowed social pressure to be eroded and crime to flourish. All credit to the shopkeeper for making a stand. It might not be a decision I'd take myself, but unlike some I cannot even remotely see the justification for trying to punish the shopkeeper.

They put themselves in extremely hostile waters for the sake of a lesiure cruise. They risked their own lives, risked the immense trauma to friends and family, risked the lives of people in the British services. If you don't think that's selfish then you have a moral compass issue you need to address, pookie.

"If I could be arsed, I'd take the shop in question down quite easily through a bog-standard data protection writ" Yar yar yar right, coz you're so cooooool it hurts. Why would you want to do that? I mean, really, what is wrong in your brain that you think that's a bright idea? The shop is the victim here. They are simply asking help to identify someone to support their enquiries into an alleged incident. Is it possible that you are such a piece of work that you see their victimhood as a weakness, and you want to have a go too? I forget, of course, you are so, like, cooooooooooooool.

I don't wish them ill, and they must have suffered an extremely traumatic experience. That doesn't escape the fact that to be sailing in those waters on a holiday cruise was so vain, self-indulgent and self-absorbed that it beggars belief. Through this cretinous junket not only have they traumatised friends and family and created diplomatic havoc, but they also undoubtedly risked the life of people in the services who would have been tasked with finding them. Glad that they're safe and sound? Yes. Heroes? No, stupid selfish arseholes.

This is a no brainer. UK exported $200bn last year, and imported around $230bn. The UK is the sixth largest economy in the world, with only 1% of it's population. International relations are vital to the UK's economic, security and cultural interests. Overseas aid is a key component of that relationship.

"ED becomes abandoned and all the action is with the mono thought clique brigade" Is that a kind of music community lingo? I really, genuinely, don't have a clue what it means?

As in 'I'm here on behalf of Bosnia and Herzegovina'?

;-)

Ref an much earlier comment... UK is a great place to do business or to own a business? For employees on a higher tax rate in 2011, they'll be paying 40% income tax, 11% national insurance and 20% VAT on every 'non-vital' purchase. If you own a business you'll be paying yourself in dividends at 18% tax, and minimum NI contributions. This means for employees in the private sector for every ?1 they generate, they'll be getting 39p back in goods and services. The rest of it isn't just paying teachers, nurses, pensioners and soldiers - it's also paying ingrates, loungers and fraudsters. I think the electorate can be forgiven for demanding that the cash is spent wisely. 750,000 graduates in medieval linguistics might not count as 'wise' for everyone. It seems extremely wise for those lecturers and students who get employ in this area and can be forgiven for declaring 'Don't break our hearts'. The only way that this doesn't look like a rip off is if you believe in Soviet style socialism. As many of you know, I now live in Singapore, which has a means tested but exceptional health service, is amongst the top 3 globally for public funded edcuation, a dementedly ambitious war machine, a personal savings plan welfare system and zero local resources - and I pay 7% tax. Crazy stuff. In the UK, dependent on where you are, between 25%-30% of the local population is employed by the state. That's huge. Their salaries are all paid by those people paying tax in the private sector. Students? Give me a break. I don't want shag happy teenagers making decisions that affect my life. Two years previous they had their willy in their hand for the first time full of the slack jawed wonder that it 'feels nice'. As for 'universal suffrage', it only works effectively in an environemnt of informed consent. I don't think the general population is daft, but I don't credit them with a desire to either be informed or know what they're consenting to. There's plenty of people on various threads on this forum complaining that I keep bringing 'statistics' into debates that would otherwise be ideological mooning. That's the graveyard of Quids ideal - it's not referendums, it's mob rule.

"His was the only appliance to arrive as the original call was to rubbish on fire." Nothing to do with shift changes or cuts then? *scratches ear*

"that will I'm afraid condemn a samll number of people to homelessness and starvation" No DJKQ, they'll have condemned themselves to homelessness and starvation by refusing to go to work. If you're talking about the mentally unwell there are other systems to address these issues, not unemployment benefit. I simply cannot agree with you that litter picking is a bad job. I think it's a great job, and a great contribution to society. I would do it rather than claim the dole. QED.

Sean's approach seems to be illogical. He's against workfare on the basis that it's only reduced single parent poverty from 50% to 30%. On that basis he wants to put 20% of single parents back into poverty* just to suit his ideology. Poor show. Workfare isn't abpout demonising benefits recipients, it's about requiring them to work for it. DJKQ's point about 'exploitation' coveniently ignores the fact that benefit recipients are currently exploiting the hard work of others. Remember, it's not government money - it's your money. *The US defines poverty in fixed terms. The 2009 figures are here. It's the line below which people literally cannot provide for themselves.

Workfare cuts poverty. If you'd like to cut poverty DJKQ, the first thing to do is persuade people back to work. The impact of the introduction of workfare in the US in the mid 90s: http://www.heritage.org/static/reportimages/27A2C53BEA293C0C17B863950E2F8D2C.gif?w=370&as=1

I certainly feel ashamed when I'm not working. That's self-employment for you. Perfectly healthy.

My own reflection

LadyM, you could talk yourself into a depression. Apparently there's 29.16 million jobs out there. That qualifies as an abundance. Naturally, it is competitive to get one of them. I should add that if you're earning minimum wage then you don't pay the loan back. I just don't get all this victim talk. These people aren't stupid. Frankly if they can't work out that they'll only be paying the loan back if they do get a well paid job then they're too stupid to go to university.

"Lots of them were very much of the opinion that they'd been hard-done-by and that benefits were their right." *Case resting activity* ;-)

Or here's two for the modern age: Common Form (1918) If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied. A Dead Statesman (1924) I could not dig, I dared not rob, And so I lied to please the mob. Now all my lies are proved untrue, And I must face the men I slew. What tale will serve me here among Mine angry and defrauded young?

Spot on Santerme. I don't like the despair of many war poets, I like the vicious scathing anger of Kipling, couched as it is in recognition of his own shame: THEY shall not return to us, the resolute, the young The eager and whole-hearted whom we gave: But the men who left them thriftily to die in their own dung, Shall they come with years and honour to the grave? They shall not return to us, the strong men coldly slain In sight of help denied from day to day: But the men who edged their agonies and chide them in their pain, Are they too strong and wise to put away? Our dead shall not return to us while Day and Night divide? Never while the bars of sunset hold. But the idle-minded overlings who quibbled while they died, Shall they thrust for high employments as of old? Shall we only threaten and be angry for an hour? When the storm is ended shall we find How softly but how swiftly they have sidled back to power By the favour and contrivance of their kind? Even while they soothe us, while they promise large amends, Even while they make a show of fear, Do they call upon their debtors, and take council with their friends, To confirm and re-establish each career? Their lives cannot repay us?their death could not undo? The shame that they have laid upon our race. But the slothfulness that wasted and the arrogance that slew, Shall we leave it unabated in its place?

Option One Visitor: "Who's that bloke there?" Resident: "That's Harry Smith. Poor bastard lost his job last year, but we all club together and pay his rent and his bills. He's a smashing feller, to pay us back he cuts the hedges, does the shopping for Granny Jones once a week and takes the local kids on fishing trips." Option Two Visitor: "Who's that bloke there?" Resident: "That's Harry Brown. His parents take money from us every week on threats and menaces of jail and give it to him. He spends most of the day in bed or down the shopping centre. The evenings he gets pissed on cheap cider. I caught him vomiting in my garden the other day, and when I asked him why he didn't get a job he spat on my shoe and told me it was his 'rights'" The thing about Harry Smith, is he won't bat an eyelid if you ask hime to do community service to support his benefit payments. Harry Brown will whine like a stuck pig and frankly deserves to be shat on. We live in the real world, not some theoretical left wing idyll.

:) When I was courting Bumbalina we went on a weekend to NY in February. Atop the Empire State Bulding in a howling gale at -10 I had to take my mitts off to take a photo. By the time I'd taken two steps back to frame the shot the wind chill had frozen my hand into a claw. I could only take the snap by batting the top of the camera with the side of my hand. In winter in Beijing it regularly got down to -20, but it was so dry you could almost walk around in a t-shirt. Air's not a very good conductor. I say almost. I don't think it'll be the same an hour outside Helsinki.