Huguenot

I mean, how about this definition of British culture: "An aggregation of the beliefs and customs of fiercely independent tribes, whose convictions are based upon none of racial background, architecture, art or language, but instead draw from historical prejudices based on a loose grasp of national agendas. "The British have a tradition of consortia when faced with economic opportunity, and apathy when comforted by financial security. The British are acquisitve and non-discerning when it comes to language, but liable to fragmentation and self-criticism when they lack a clear objective. They're suckers for glib politicians. "Artisitically they are populist and anti-intellectual, whilst scientifically they are world leaders as a consequence of their craving for rationalism. "Musically the fractures within their society contribute to their role as a hotbed of creativity, which has delivered a cultural reputation that exceeds their colonial history. "This, coupled with their disregard for economic advancement has produced an astounding track record for invention and patent coupled with a corresponding lack of world beating companies".

Just musing on cultural distinctions... TM felt that language was significant in national demarcation, so I was exploring. *all innocent, me*

I've been sniffing around this Scots language thing, rumour has it that it's as distinct as Geordie? ;-)

Agreed with all points Jeremy. With attendants I can't think of a better payment system that would also ensure they did their job though. After all, it's recipe for 40 cups of tea a day...

"That is all true (apart from the Irish import thing, although I accept your qualification). But if you see Scotland as a nation state arising from a Pict/ Gael/ Lallans mish-mash, the military and economic victories came from those in the Lowland power base. Hence Old Scots wins. It doesn't make Scots more "British" though. Britain as a concept didn't exist at the time." This was the basis of my response, modern Scotland is not a "nation state arising from a Pict/ Gael/ Lallans mish-mash". Culturally this has been subsumed by amongst others Hollywood, immigration and intellectual diversity. The point is that modern Scotland is specifically British, because being British is defined by being within Britain: a union whose global dominance was driven as much by the Scottish as the English. Hence you could describe once aspect of 'British' culture is that we are uncomfotable neighbours when the economics don't look good.

Well Luton's mainly Urdu if you've been there? Yet they're still British and so contribute by default to whatever we want to identify as modern British Culture. To talk of Scottish culture in the way you do, you have to generate a false image of a Scottish race. That simply isn't Scotland without rejecting in a reprehensible fashion the European immigrant populations of both Glasgow and Edinburgh. If Edinburgh is English by design, and architecture contributes to cultural texture, then Scottish culture is English. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not, whether it was elected or imposed, it just is. If you try and define Scottish culture as the attitudes and approaches of only the genetically pure then you're back on the biscuit tin again. It isn't Scotland, and it isn't Scottish culture.

"Language, religion, music, architecture, trade, art, all the biggies" I'm offering that these signifiers are just as strong twixt Luton, Newcastle and Chelsea as they are between Scotland and England. In order to differentiate culture nationally then you need cultural differences that are greater on either side of the border than they are within those borders.

Architecture, people, sporting enthusiasms, crime rates, evening entertainment...

Line 3, last few columns... I imagine you have all sorts of costs, not just ticket processing: salaries, signposts, maintenance etc.

I wasn't attacking the cultures of Scotland or Wales, so much as suggesting that their individual national 'cultures' are not as differentiated from the English as they may claim. In fact to be more specific I was suggesting that the biggest difference in 'culture' was claiming not to be English - unlike the English, who are. Edinburgh might be Bath, and Glasgow does a perfectly credible job of being Birmingham. A Tam O'Shanter picture on top of a tin of shortbread doesn't give you a unique culture, neither does a well-known film star. My angle was that most of their claims of independent cultural identity are no stronger than the claims made by Yorkshire, Liverpool or Clitheroe. They may well have been their own nations back in the day, but then so were Wessex and Mercia. Hence I was marginalising and belittling their independent cultural logic on the grounds that it makes no more sense than a bloke saying "I'm not English, I'm a Ripon man".

I'm not sure what either of you guys are referring to? I was observing that the best strategy for avoiding payment was Chick's rather than Huntaaar. I was also criticising the warden's behaviour. Quids, I agree that the LA want your money (although I disagree with your attributed motivation) and for that reason Chick's approach is going to be more effective. Jeremy I agree with you, and for that reason Chick's approach is going to be more effective. (As it happens Quids I can't agree with you that parking management is about revenue generation, as according to Southwark's figures the 8.9m cost of maintaining and running traffic & parking management schemes far outstrips the 1.1m in revenue they generate. QED they ain't about money, but about punishing selfish drivers who abuse both their neighbours and their environment).

MacRoban, I fear you are too rigid in your perspective. A cultural trait of your own perhaps? A culture is as difficult to define as Plato's very own table. It is a mark of the wit and creativity of our contributors that they have chose to define our culture by its manifest creations. In much the same way, another national culture might be defined by the parsimony of their intellectual charity? Not sure what age has to do with the price of fish though?

I don't think it's about clever words MacRoban, it's about rationale. Both penalties seem unreasonable in that they were served on a technical aspect '4.02pm' rather than the spirit of the law, which was to reduce congestion through rush hour. Both drivers were present and in the process of removing the vehicle. Chick responded in kind, by challenging the technical accuracy of the penalty in such a way that it was unlikely to hold up in court. Huntaaar doesn't do this, but questions the penalty on the basis of 'fairness' (which is subjective) and raises the issue of stealth tax (which is emotive). However, by using these arguments, (s)he unwittingly accepts the legal premise of the ticket, which is all that counts. It may be that Huntaaar's letter encounters a reasonable adjudicator with the flexibility to act. Chick doesn't need one. I'm not sure, also, MacRoban why you have a thing about intelligence. You bandy the word "clever" like it's an insult - is there a problem?

Hmmm. Too reasonable I think Huntaaar. Chick's smacked of 'I'm totally unreasonable and totally prepared to go the distance' that would make a council operative more likely to waive the fine than get a career blackmark.

What is it you're looking for Felicity, that's not in either SMBS or the grocers on North Cross?

I love that squealy nasal noise that comes out of the regions when it comes to being British. Like or not, the Scottish or the Welsh can only really define themselves by not being English. Whether it's Irvine Welsh, Rabbie Burns or Mel Gibson, the Scottish are biscuit tin cameos, not cultural leviathans. The glens have no greater identity than the shires. The Welsh are witty enough to get the joke, the Scots nationalists hide like weasels behind Sean Connery as if being a filmstar makes you clever. How pathetic. Felicity "I'm not going to answer that question" Normal, how I do hope you're not British. But you probably are. There's always someone who lets the side down. It's spectacularly British that strangers will rub your back and pander to your inadequacies whilst you wee on their shoes. You probably misconstrue being picked early for the netball team as a reflection of your quality. It's not, it's because everyone else can't stand having you ruin their fun by whinging, wailing and puking in the corner about being picked last - another British trait. This forum is your nation, your peers, your colleagues, the people who metalled your roads and wired your broadband. Without your nation you'd be crying at your reflection in a broken mirror. Like Kevin and Perry, the small-minded snort and dribble and demand attention because they have nothing to give. Stand up, be nice, be generous, it's a sign of strength. JL and HB, I raise a glass. TLS your list was so 1974. Either way these are the ideas that stride the world, and I'm so pleased to have them. Brenda, it's over there.. there... behind you.

With thanks to the Daily Mash... OED researcher Nathan Muir said: "The dictionary can accept neologisms if there are frequent enough references to its definition in common culture. "Following a thorough appraisal we are now satisfied that 'ronaldo' has become sufficiently analogous with a lying, pig-eyed sack of donkey turds." Other new definitions in the next edition include: Clarkson: (adj) Where the truth of an opinion is inversely proportional to its popularity amongst the mentally ill. The assertion that cyclists are worse than Hitler is profoundly clarkson. Bale: (n) A tantrum completely out of proportion to the perceived slight. On hearing the cafe had run out of cinnamon, Nikki threw a bale until someone smacked her with a teapot. For example: "Half a dozen new posters did a Bale on the ED shooting thread whilst AFN, typically, did a Clarkson."

13 homicides in Southwark in the 12 months to January, 156 in total across London. With 7.5 million people, that's a 1 in 48,000 chance of catching a stray one. With 10,000 annual abductions in the US, and a population of 300m, that's a 1 in 30,000 chance of getting an alien probe up your jacksy. I'm not sure they're mutually exclusive, mind you.

My case exactly. If what you say is true, and the money has been identified to the extent necessary by law, then the money will have gone, and TJ will be bang to rights. If it hasn't, and the burden of proof is so low, then she ain't guilty.

Louisiana, you continue to refer to this situation as if it were a money-laundering crime committed by TJ, when an investigation has found that no such crime has taken place. This defies logic. Your agenda is tainted, and your opinion is soiled. "Mr TJ came home with a wad of readies or equivalent, the proceeds of a crime but seemingly from an unnamed source, and she pocketed it. And it remains in her pocket, AFAIK." 'AFAIK'??? You don't know any of this. It's a smear, it's defamatory and unsupported. It's shameful. She's been investigated, and found innocent of any such crime. You're peddling the politics of the gutter. If you know something that the investigators don't know then you should go to the relevant authorities with my full support. I don't think you do. "I would like to hear otherwise." In other words guilty until proven innocent? Your prejudice betrays you and undermines your credibility. You have no intention of hearing otherwise - you've got you're fingers in your ears and you're going 'la la la hate'. This is ridiculous, a witch hunt.

Good question Lousiana! Although I guess it's quite an difficult area? Imagine, for example, that you worked in a pub and served someone who was underage - would you have to hand your salary back because you did something illegal while you were employed? If it was proceeds from criminal activity then that's one thing, but if it was a salary performed for activities that were later found to be in breach of the law, I don't know how the courts would be able to address it. Interesting!

"stop trying to get to know words that are not of your own native tongue as im sure it will not benefit you in any way shape or form. If your not using your knowledge or the words for good or your own personal leisure then dont use it at all it makes no sense just get on with your life and dont watch what we do or say. Simple" It's the spirit of social integration isn't it? Telling people what they can and can't do, a sort of local tyranny? :)) Nice to have you on board Shan, although I don't really understand why you've dug up a long dead thread and then told your friendly neighbours to stop talking about it? You may not realise, but you kind of achieved quite the opposite? I guess this thread would qualify as 'words for your own personal leisure', as it's a chat site? On another note, I think racism needs to involve intent, not just perception. We can't walk around all day getting offended at whatever we choose. What a disaster!

It does look really crap.

I always try to make the point, TLS, that I'm not for or against parking restrictions, but I do note that there are often good arguments that favour some restrictions bthat go unheard. I just like to keep their head above water ;-) I also note that those arguments against parking restrictions are often disingenuous and misrepresent the facts. As I've said before, 50mph restrictions on the M25 make journeys faster not slower, and managing parking in ED may make traders more successful - at the expense of the freeloaders. On this one... PR was complimenting K&C on providing 2 hours free parking. K&C haven't removed parking restrictions, just made them free. ED doesn't seem to have any equivalent parking restrictions that could be made free, so I wondered what she was referring to?

What snotty comments from Carole Cadwalladr indeed. I can't think of two neighbours who are nearly as geographically, economically, culturally and postally as different as ED and Peckham. Historically, apart from proximity there's little that links the two towns. I'm sure than many Peckham residents will be disturbed to be associated with such a den of iniquity.