JoeLeg

Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ok, let's have everyone's suggestions for a > working agreement, rather than just digging at > each other You first. This is your sandbox, after all.

Also, while you're answering alex_b, can you include a forecast for me of how we can solve the problem of the low-skilled workforce in this country? As I've been frequently lectured by Leave voters, the reason young British people don't want to do those jobs is because the wages are too low (never mind that the UK government set the minimum wage, not the EU). But how does that square with the often-reported experience of employers in those fields that UK people actually don't want to do those jobs? How do we fill those positions? Surely the only way to address those claims is to increase the minimum wage further, even though it will have a knock-on effect on prices as private business compensates in order to avoid a further squeeze on profits (which they will do because business is business)? Otherwise we'll just end up importing low-skilled workers from non-EU locations. Have you noticed that as EU migration dropped non-EU migration has risen? Coincidence? I doubt it...

Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don't think anyone wants no deal - EU or UK - or > any individuals - Absolute crap. From Jacob and Boris and IDS down to people being interviewed in the street by major newspapers every day, there's a lot of support for "walk away now', 'No Deal!", "WTO now!". If you think otherwise then you're kidding yourself. and hopefully the fact that it > is a very possibly outcome will focus everyone > involved in getting something that actually > works. > > What May has put forward is an equally unfeasible > alternative. It's two extremes. Then I look forward to YOUR alternative. Because all you've said so far is that you think we should leave with No Deal.

Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I like it when people criticize but are not able > to come up with an alternative. You what mate? Seriously? Really? I voted Remain. I lost. I accepted it. It is not my job or role in society to 'come up with an alternative'. That's for Leave voters. I didn't want to Leave, I still don't, but I'm being pulled along with the (slim) majority. That's just life. But don't sit there and think that I have to find another path. You voted Leave? You wanted it? You solve it. And I'm allowed to criticise. I voted, therefore I'm allowed to complain about the outcome. Democracy, remember?

Trinnydad wrote > > It is what the country voted for in the > referendum. I like the way you know that every single Leave voter wanted a Hard Brexit. Personally I doubt it. Personally I don?t think you all wanted a Hard Brexit, but I think now you?d prefer it to anything else on offer because it?ll get you what you want and you?re prepared to risk everything - and everyone - to get it. I hope you?re right, because you?re taking all of us with you.

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > diable rouge Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > This weeks political buzz word...pivot > > I'd like to tell the EU to 'swivel' You did. You had your vote. Do you not understand that? It turns out the government is busy messing it all up. Don?t worry though, you?ll probably get No Deal, and then you can cross your fingers and hope it works out. Because if it doesn?t people like you are going to be hated.

Both Osbourne and May told CMD that it was a bad idea, but Dave was so scared of UKIP (and utterly convinced he?d win) that he overruled them.

Nothing per se, but if you think it lends your creed any kind of credibility then I?ve got a bridge I?d like to sell you...

Yeah, says Farage who has never had to actually form policy, lead a party in actual power, or in any way be responsible for anything other than protesting against existing situations. Easy to yell when you aren?t the one having to make decisions. He?s never had to make any decision of consequence in his political life.

Mamalan is superb.

Let me say clearly - I have no idea where this is going to end up. Pragmatism and common sense have taken a back seat to ?red lines? and dogmatic declarations of what Brexit should mean. I think there?s a growing movement for No Deal, especially amoungst the public. People want to Leave, whatever the cost, and who knows, maybe we?ll be ok? I certainly don?t know. However, this feels less like kicking a can down the road and more like we?ve painted ourselves into a corner, There simply is no way to find a compromise that will satisfy everyone, or even one that everyone can live with. Someone is going to be really angry. I just have no idea who it will be. Extending A50 is possible, and maybe Germany will renegotiate - that might be enough. What I think it will depend on is whether May resigns or not. She can?t be forced out right now, but she might do a Cameron and walk. Unlikely though. But I can?t see how she can come back with any better deal second time around? It?s really all guesswork at this point. I?m feeling really pessimistic about it all, which is probably why I reckon it?ll be No Deal. Don?t listen to me, it?ll probably be fine...!

It?s a fair point that cyclists can be challenged and drivers can?t be, I do concede that. I also concede that drivers who have already made a conscious decision to ignore the rules of the road would likely be rude and defensive. Upon reflection, maybe I find it so annoying from cyclists because somehow I expect better ofcthem? Growing up in London one somehow becomes used to bad behaviour from drivers and I know I instinctively show extra caution precisely because I know people can and will drive like idiots (personally I would demolish the car of every driver who thinks it?s ok to make a turn without signalling, but that?s why I?m not in charge). I suppose I just imagine that cyclists are better behaved, but of course that?s not true because humans are humans everywhere you go.

(Edited because me and Sue are never going to agree on this.)

No Deal isn?t just the legal default; it?s now the preferred option of most Leave voters, when compared to May?s Deal. FOM is a red line for many, many Leave voters and they will happily swallow anything in order to stop it. May and Corbyn both know that to oppose them is suicide at a GE. (The fact that non-EU immigration is rising seems to be ignored...) To revoke A50 will be similar suicide, so they aren?t going to do that either. I?m starting to think it?ll be a snap GE or No Deal.

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- That's when the real fun will > start (assuming the withdrawal agreement get's the > wave through). It?s not going to get through. Not with a wave, a nudge or big old shove between the shoulder blades. And yes, that is indeed when the ?fun? starts. I would at least have a modicum of respect go those Leavers who now want No Deal if they?d been open about the risks beforehand, but all we got from them were assurances that this would be smooth and easy. At least, so long as the EU did what they wanted. But of course the RU is going to make it hard for us. How they didn?t spot that I don?t know. But it suits them to blame the EU for everything, and they?ll keep doing it even after we?ve left. We're at a total impasse. This is very true.

I think part of the problem is that those cyclists that do break the road law - and they are very few comparatively - know that they?re doing it and have it already justified in their mind; as such they respond forcefully to anyone who challenges them. That?s why I feel the cycling ?community? (I?m assuming such a thing exists, as it were) is the best forum to address the issue. Pressure from one?s peers is more likely to be effective than any pedestrian or driver yelling at them.

Sue, there is a massive gulf between what you are advocating - which is sensible, evidence-based analysis coupled with the awareness that there are things out there with *some* people have found useful - and the generalised attacks on modern medicine mounted by those who have an innate refusal to question their own beliefs. I have no issue with people spending their own money and time on the use of homeopathy. I virulently oppose the spread of disinformation - even propaganda - against the wider medical community, especially when it had no basis in anything other than an individuals personal belief and some joke websites they have read. In my defence I would point out it was only Jenny Pinks ridiculous assertions regarding the motives of the NHS and presumptions about the efficiency of modern medicine that raised my ire. I also have no problem pointing out the profits made by sellers of homeopathic remedies; you said yourself that they are not charities, yet many of them happily cultivate an image of razor-thin profit margins. I never mentioned anyone?s name. Homeopathy is perfectly capable of mounting fairly aggressive attacks, and does not - in my opinion - do enough to dissuade people from the idea that it is the only safe form of treatment. I?m thinking particularly of the anti-vaxxer lobby. There is absolutely a place for the analysis of whether previously unknown ingredients can have medical applications, but the wholesale assumption that an untested regimen of 100% natural origin will somehow be superior in all respects to medical treatments is dangerous and must be challenged. Knowledge is power. Assumption is mother of all f-ups. And much of homeopathy is based on assumption.

And thus you prove my point by totally misunderstanding it. Seriously, you were a teacher? Wow... The fact that bacon is a cured product does not render it immune to the necessity of temperature control.

TE44 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JoeLeg, It feels your dislike for this person goes > beyond the selling of homeopathic pills. Kindly re-read my post and show where I expressed a personal opinion of him. For the record - seeing as this is obviously important to you and you think it relevant, I held no personal view on him past a dislike of his conspiraloon theories which even back then I felt were harmful to others. I > Do not know this person, but it seems you do, to > put so much personal information about him on this > forum.It seems unfair when there may be people who > know this person and this person is unaware of > this thread. Wow. Not worth responding to. If this was someone posting the same > info about a local chemist charging more for > vaccines it would be wrong. Hilarious attempt at a straw man argument. So much wrong in that sentence I literally don't know where to begin... > > These topics go round and round on this forum and > it never gets past right or wrong, shame. No, it's not a shame to point out that the homeopathic industry peddles a view of itself as somehow being more ethical and reliable than 'big pharma', when the opposite is demonstrably true. As Sue points out, none of them are charities. There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in our philosophy, and modern medicine can't explain or treat absolutely everything, but it does a damn good job with a lot of it - as evidenced by the increasing length of many peoples lives and the comparative lack of things like cholera epidemics - but when people like Jenny Pink start accusing the NHS of being a money-spinning arm of big pharma and asserting that basically all modern medicine is a con, that's when I get really angry.

As per usual you paint the world in your day-glo colours and assume everything is the same. Like all meat products - indeed like all food products - anything rammed with chemicals and additives will be appalling for you, and most bacon sold in the U.K. is pretty bad and certainly should not be eaten. Proper bacon is nothing more than pork cured with salt and possibly some whole spices, maybe maple or treacle if you?re trying to be fancy. Nothing else. It?s like any decent form of charcuterie, and pretty easy to find. Educate yourself mate.

Because to be fair - and I say this as someone who in some ways is not a fan of Lammy - he?s right about an awful lot of stuff there. Unfortunately I think it?s too late, and personally I think a second referendum is even more of a gamble than the first, in many ways.

Brixton Wholefoods on Coldharbour Lane (as opposed to the ?Wholefoods? chain) sold many homeopathic remedies back in the 90?s when my best mate was a long-term member of staff. He knew how much the owner was paying for them, and the extortionate mark-up subsequently applied. Every member of staff there (my friend included, but in his defence the smackheads on staff were worse) was stealing from the place (and I mean in a serious way) one way or another and STIll the profits were enough to send two kids to local private schools. The rest of his lifestyle was similarly well-furnished. What?s my point? My point is that anyone who thinks homeopathic remedies sold from cute, independent locations by former hippies are automatically going to be good value for money is sadly deceived. Of course they aren?t charities, but I object vociferously to the idea that somehow they are paragons of virtue. There?s a huge amount of money to be made in such things, because of the perception that because it?s ?natural? somehow it?s automatically value for money. Personally I dispute that.

Oh that's awful! I usually get my hair cut by Jaime, haven't been for a couple of months but was planning on going soon. To be honest I'm not surprised if he's gone - he was saying that there's more competition in the area, and rents are an issue (like everywhere around here). I can imagine his bottom line was getting pretty squeezed. If he's decided to pull stumps I kind of hope it was a business decision and not the result of something more sinister, though it's a loss of another 'traditional' business. Ah well, the inevitable march of change...

@Jenny Pink I?m not sure what I find more distasteful - your twisted view of modern medicine, your ill-informed opinions on why doctors and nurses use scientifically proven methods, or your wholesale rejection of anything that does not support your opinion that it?s all a money-spinning exercise for big pharma. I?ll bet you?re an anti-vaxxer too. Take your tin-foil hattery back to 4Chan where it belongs. ?It?s proven to work on animals, so can not be a placebo? Riiiiight. Do you have any idea how drug trials work? Come back to me when you do, and you?ll understand why the fact that something works on one species doesn?t mean it will work on another. Glad your dogs are ok though. Feel free to have the last word on this, I?ll be here with my wife who was saved from certain death by Kings who used an awful lot of drugs that did indeed have side-effects when they pulled that 5.5kg infected fibroid out of her. She?s still here, thankfully. If you want to spend your money on it then feel free. Please stop denigrating the hard work of trained medical professionals of whom you seem to believe your opinion is equal to their training and experience. And as for profit? Well the owner of Brixton Wholefoods sent his son to Alleyns and his daughter to JAGS off the money he took in the shop, and that was AFTER all his staff were robbing him blind. So please don?t go telling me that the homeopathic world is averse to ripping off the customer - oh I?m sorry, I meant turning a ?healthy? profit.

Rendell, you know I generally see eye to eye with you on most things, but I?m going to say this. Several times now - I?m not exaggerating - I?ve encountered cyclists at the junction of East Dulwich Road and Peckham Rye jumping red lights, sometimes also taking the corners at dangerous speeds. One of them nearly hit me and my then 6-year old as we crossed on the green man, and then swore at us when I challenged him, and I?ve had others be similarly responsive. I?ve seen similar behaviour on other junctions but do some reason that one seems particularly bad; perhaps it?s the wide sight lines that make cyclists feel ok about it, but red lights are the rule of the road. I fully agree cyclists overall are far less dangerous, and maybe I?ve just been unlucky in my encounters, but my personal (and I stress personal) experience is that the cycling community could maybe benefit from reminding it?s more overconfident members that red lights are not optional.