Magpie

If anyone has bothered to read any of the reports that come via Ian Duncan Smith's thinktank on poverty and social inclusion there are several interesting suggestions made to improve social mobility and prevent the poverty trap - from a Tory no less shock horror. Removing the 10% tax on low incomes is about the least progressive measure possible if your're seeking to help the low paid and encourage working over benefits. Further, I can see the attraction of the status quo if you're employed by the state, and have benefitted by the last 5 years of excessive spending straight into the pay packet, and look forward to a final salary pensions. The rest of us tend to question why we need bullying outreach workers at 40k a pop. Also probably not a popular view on here, but a government which has a "doors wide open" policy on immigration can hardly be seen as beneficial to the low paid as the net result is pressure on wages and competition for housing and healthcare.

"God Rest ye Merry Gentleman" is my fave - last verse sung with the descant - very hearty and Olde England

Thanks for the info Heidi - I have a slight scar on my arm from where I got the BCG - from memory it was preceeded by a skin tests to see if you were allergic Perhaps one for the drawing room, but sadly the rise of TB is yet another unintended consequence of mass immigration in the last 10 years . . . . . .

Quick question, and excuse ignorance - I had my BCG when I was around 13 - is it now given to infants or is this a different jab?

Few issues with this: This is a critique of American English not English eg Eggplant is known as Aubergine in England - only the yanks call it eggplant What on earth is a parkway? A wise guy is hardly an English term I have never heard of English muffins? and so on . . . . . . . . vans not Truck

Well in my view the consideration is of of relative versus absolute poverty. It may be stating the obvious if you define poverty as below the median then 50% of the country will always be counted as poor. If you define what a reasonable person/family needs to have a good quality of life in the UK, then it would be more like c10% of the country, if you define poverty on a global basis then (in my view) it is less than 0.1%. Clearly in the UK there has been lots of froth in the economy driven by cheap debt and house prices - this has pretty much been worked out of the system. Everyone excepts that a more balanced economy is necessary in the UK between exports/ imports and services/manufacturing. Finally shortages of fossil fuels and food represent opportunities as well as threats.

I agree that we need more localised politics and more decentralisation of decision making. However, I'm not sure the outcome will be any different. In absolute terms, this year excepting, there is no evidence to support the idea that people are getting poorer - at any level of income distribution incomes and GDP per capita have risen continuously since 1992. The relative gap between the rich and the rest has increased. Its also not true that the next generation will be worse off than the last unless you believe that the economy will never grow again.

Well does it matter if politics is boring? Look at Germany, they get endless coalition governments all of whom peddle slighly different brands of the same policies. Big political changes are disruptive and damaging. Surely if there is largely a political consensus as to what is the best way to govern across Western Europe, with only slight variation depending on national preferences, why should the UK be any different? The Tories under Cameron will only be subtly different than Labour under Blair/Brown, the world will not end if he gets in. The poor will not get poorer as they never have in modern history (but the gap between the richest and the poorest may change). People are offered a choice - eg Greens, BNP, Socialist workers party etc, and by far the vast majority prefer centrist politics.

You didn't criticise it, you made an assertion based on your opinion, which ignored some basic facts. Its something I have observed left wing people often do: "The right/tories are stupid" "The right/tories are selfish" "The tories only care about the rich" etc I apologise if you don't fit into any particular box, your comment suggested you did

Fine but businesses don't vote - individuals do. Thus for a Conservative or any right wing party to get voted in they need enough of the electorate to consider that their approach achieves a better result for themselves and hence collectively society than a left wing approach. It is incorrect to say that a right wing party works solely in the interests of business - politics in the US for example is generally far to the right of the UK, yet the anti-trust legislation and punishment of white collar crime (such as fraud) is far stricter than in the UK. The right does not slavishly believe in markets without protection against market failure and abuse, it believes that in general the collective decisions of individuals is a more efficient means of making choices in most cases (long term energy policy being one of the many exceptions) than the "heavy hand" of the state. For example, a right-wing approach to poverty should encourage privately run, locally based initiatives and groups to encourage enterprise, self reliance, and advancement through education, rather than simply handing out benefits. The reality is that both the left and right result in some combination of the approaches, the balance may simply be different.

Typical left wing arrogance: "an organisation that does not have the best interests of society at heart" The role of any political party is to run the country for the benefit of the electorate, if they are successful they get re-elected. Therefore any party in a democracy has to have the best interests of society at heart. Now the right may have a different view to you as to what the interests of society are. Perhaps you lean towards a greater role for the state for example and higher taxes on the rich. The right believe in a lesser role for the state and greater personal responsibility. They consider the state does not alway know best, and that people should be given the freedom to manage their own lives with minimal interference. They also believe that lower taxes provide an incentive for hard work, encourage new business, employment etc Just because you disagree with their political idealology does not mean that your statement is true.

I see no reason to apologise for a lack of Jamaicans and Irish in East Dulwich, nor to apologise for being middle class and white. As to mothers with buggies being rude. I was brought up to be considerate to people in more difficult circumstances than myself. This means that it is good manners to give way to the elderly, the infirm, those with disabilities, and unsurprisingly the pregnant, and those with young children. Assuming that a person looking after a child should get out the way of an able bodied adult is rude, and complaining about it is bad manners. Harden the f**k up.

For lager drinkers new to real ale I would always go for a lighter ale, as it tends to be less "bitter". On the other hand if you like Guinness then the darker beers with an higher alcohol content may be more up your street. Waggle dance is certainly a real ale, and a good example of something that a lager drinker would probably drink and enjoy. I agree on Belgian beer - the German's and the Belgians treat beer with the same reverence as Wine, and given the quality and variety of British Beers available, it's a shame we don't do the same here. I think the problem is that real ale does have an association with men with beards and sandals doing strange things in sheds.

No need for innuendo - I think a name like the East Dulwich Brewing Company - with our first brew - a traditional Best being named SE22

Well perhaps not over ice . . . . . . but something equally modern and down with the kids

I know the stereotypes of real ales fans - but this is time to break down the barriers and turn real ale trendy. Its local, its organic, its sustainable, plus we could have some really cool bottles and serve over ice or something - soon everyone will be quaffing real ale and commenting on hoppyness and which beer goes well with butternut squash. Whose with me?????

I'm sorry but this is rubbbish. The house market boom in the US and elsewhere was caused by interest rates being kept too low for too long by the Fed, the BoE and others. This made it more affordable to borrow money - banks make money by lending money so thats what they did. Interest rates were kept too low because of the impact of the "China" price - ie low price goods from china plus the fact that the chinese government purchased US secutities to stop the dollar falling, hence inflation stayed low. This came to an end with the rise in oil and commodity prices, which led to higher inflation, which led to banks increasing interest rates, which led to sub prime borrowers defaulting. Now the bank were not prudent as to who they lent to, but the UK and US consumer have been feckless and should take some of the blame. Gordon is to blame for the relativly poor position of the UK. Under his watch personal debt expanded massively, and he spent high tax receipts in the good times so that the cupboard is now bare. As a result the UK gov and UK households are virtually broke. His actions last September may have helped to prevent total collapse of the financial system, but the seeds of the financial collapse were planted on his watch, and in some cases are directly attributable to him.

Bit of a random question- but does anyone have any experience of brewing beer? I have done it a couple of times using kits, but never from first principles, but have toyed for a while with the idea of starting an East Dulwich Micro Brewery. Anyone fancy joining a collective to start brewing our own beer - we could have a first meeting in Hoopers to plan - and then start selling it through local pubs/shops? Have I just got over excited by all this chat on beer . . . . .

Brendan - "Real" Ale should be cask conditioned and "live" ie un-pasturised so the yeast is still living. Any other non-lager Beers like John Smiths, Tetleys, Boddingtons etc is keg beer - ie pasturised beer.

In theory you are only meant to use smokeless fuels (ie high quality coal) in London, this is as a result of the Clean Air act from the 1950's which eventually stopped the famous London Smogs. However, logs are widely available, and given that only a small proportion of people now actually use their open fires, I doubt the law is enforced.

If they didn't stop then you are free to call the Southwark noise team again, they have the legal right to confiscate the equipment. All night parties are fine, all night parties where the music is keeping everyone up within a mile radius are not.

At risk of gatecrashing an argument how is the treatment of Tony by Southwark Council not racist? He was removed from his post and replaced on the basis that he was white. "Positive" discrimination it may be considered by some, but it is still a racist policy, in that it discriminates against him on the basis of his skin colour.

Just to make a point - my other half is a member of the ED WI - average age within the sub 40 bracket - worth taking a look as my missus has made a number of friends through it

I know what you mean - it just doesn't feel the same sitting on the sofa at home. Plus Mrs Magpie objects to my jumping up and down, screaming and shouting as Flintoff roars in or if England have broken the line . . . . .

I have refused to go into the Magdala sinces its been "changed" The place was 5 minutes from my house and therefore my regular venue for all things rugby related. I'm afraid when I'm facing a choice of a 15-20 minute walk to Hoopers (not the EDT too small, and too crowded)I tend to stay at home. For me a real loss.