Magpie

Respect and consideration for others is the foundation of a civilised society - I'm with the tutters

Interest rates kept at low levels by central banks and governments had no small role to play in housing boom

The key to this is surely consideration. Non-parents should be considerate to families with Children - yes we are aware our buggies are effing huge and take up a lot of space - but what can we do - never leave the house at the weekend, because hungover groups of twenty-somethings want to dawdle outside cafes and pubs on the narrow pavements of Lordship Lane? Equally, parents should be considerate and aware of the noise and disruption caused by young children, which is why I wouldn't take my brood into a proper drinking pub, which lets be honest in ED can be defined as the CPT, the Castle and maybe the EDT - all other pubs are pretty much eating establishments desperate for their share of the family market.

The majority of fat in the diet comes from heavily processed food and diary products - rather than meat. The real baddies are crisps, processed cakes, biscuits and cheese (although I can't live without the latter). I also think processed food is far more expensive than fresh food. As someone mentioned above its easy to do a veg stew cheaply - or using cheap cuts such as brisket/shin, pork belly, lamb shoulder etc and slow cooking makes a far tastier roast/joint than the premium cuts in my opinion. I did a cottage pie using brisket which I had slow cooked for about 5 hours the other Sunday - it was amazing, and padded out with leeks, carrots, and onions it fed the family. Better medical care, and greater awareness of hygeine were key contributors to life expectancies - but I think I'm right in saying that under rationing the population had a better diet than today on average, due to a scientific approach to designing the diet - ie it was balanced, healthy and relied on fresh fruit and vegetables. I like the butchers near the plough - its very stripped back - not glammed up like W Rose's, but the meat is good, and shorter queues - although if get stuck behind someone who wants a leg of lamb deboned then it can take some time, as they are happy to prep everything for you.

The clocks seem to have gone back in NZ, as kick-off appears to be 8.30am, is that right? bit early for a pint, but I'm sure I'll cope

Best place for watching Eng/Sco and Ireland/Italy games at the weekend - Hoopers? Is the EDT showing the matches?

Really, you think Southwark council is full of middle-class imogens and Toby's? I had always imagined a bunch of middle class amateur Marxists clutching copies of the Socialist Worker - as they think of yet more ways in which they can ban fun.

Lets just say I wasn't being particularly serious, but humour me, as it amuses me to imagine that this is exactly the type of conversation weird council-type people have when rationalising their slightly barmy decisions, as they try and contort themselves through a self-imposed straitjacket around "diversity" issues.

Not sure if this right thread - is there another one on wild food in East Dulwich, but on Goodrich road - there is a line of trees producing fruit which looks like Cherry's - can anyone confirm edibility or otherwise?

Mockney - I imagine the conversation went something like this Generic right-on councillor 1: "Lets fund a fireworks display on Guy Fawkes nights" Generic right-on councillor 2: "Good idea, but we can't associate it with Guy Fawkes, as that could be considered [by ourselves] as culturally oppressive" Generic right-on councillor 1: "I agree, lets celebrate diversity by calling it something bland and meaningless, how about Colour Thief" Generic right-on councillor 2: "Thats brilliant, the muslims will love it"

To arrange a fireworks display on or near the 5th of November, and then name it anything other than a bonfire/Guy Fawkes night display is so self-evidently a politically motivated and deliberate decision - to deny otherwise is ostrich-like

Don't be too depressed - there are now more brewers in the UK that at any time in history - the sell out to foreign interests by our big brewers has left the field open to mid-rank brewers and the micros. I would argue that Marstons is a great example of a mid-rank brewery. I agree on Doom bar - its a bit gimmicky, and Coors are the clowns who ran Bass into the ground, and now having realised that real ale is on a revival have decided to buy Sharps. The likes of Fullers, Wells, Sheaphard Neame, Adnams, St Austell are all doing well, as are the micros beneath them. It is sad about Youngs - the clockhouse was rubbish for food, but I always enjoyed the draft beer.

Interesting people's perceptions - most tories would say that Lib Dems have too much control over policy

Yes - much better but you're quite right - the Lib Dems took the responsible course. Nick Clegg may pay the price for that decision at the next election, but history will judge him well.

You can link the two tellies together via an standard AV cable, and can get a special device that enables you to change channel on the second TV even if the Virgin box is in another room. However, this won't give you an HD signal. You can get wireless devices for HD, but they are quite expensive. Easiest option as people have said is a set-top aerial, which should give reasonable picture. However, we tend to suffer here as perversly signal is almost too strong as we live so close to CP.

Right so if I can summarise some of the views supporting this measure: Tax pensioners who live in nice houses; these are people who were taxed all there life while working, had their savings taxed, have their pensions taxed, and now you want to tax their homes, on the basis that its "not fair" - the result being that they are forced to sell and move out - with the capital gain on their primary residence also being taxed. Then you want to give the home to council tenants - some of whom have never paid any tax, but have lived in receipt of benefits. It really does sound "fair".

Depends on what you want - I prefer North Coast to South Coast as its wilder - but I wouldn't stay in Padstow as its v crowded and touristy - worth a day trip though. If you want quaint fishing village then go South, if you want wild coastal walks and crashing surf then its North for me.

The leak on Crystal Palace road was still there at the weekend, and appeared to be getting worse

"foxy, don't you think this isn't a first and that There might be sound logical reasons behind this, made by people who have studied traffic and road safety for years? No?" You are talking about a council here

music for bedwetters

It depends on your perspective or "explanation" for the recent riots. I acknowledge that most of the people involved will have grown up living in depressing accomodation, with terrible or non-existent parents, and attend struggling schools. However, most of them have also never been disciplined, no-one has ever stood up to them or said no, and hence a strong response (eg jail time) may do them some good, and act as a deterrant to others. By all means lets look at improving opportunities in inner cities, but don't kid yourself that its a lack of opportunity that has failed them - discipline and self discipline are just as important, and no-one has ever given them that.

No one in particular - my personal impression of this board is that the consensus on most issues - economics or crime say - is essentially left leaning. In addition there is a snobbery against, for example, the "buggy brigade" in East Dulwich. For a few days we had a more diverse sweep of opinion with, shall we say, more robust views on crime, but now they have all been driven off or bored to tears with essays on disaffected youth, and so situation is back to normal.

The sporadic outbreaks of disagreement to the board's liberal consensus lasted for a few days, but it looks like the lefties are beginning to regain control

I read the link you posted - most of it makes senses - particularly around lack of social normality eg no family, no jobs, etc However, the author, having used several hundred words of academic language, finishes off with an ill-informed, simplistic and ignorant ranting against bankers and hence undermines the credibility of his entire argument. It seems that "right wingers" don't have the monopoly on sweeping generalisations.

The reality is that there are not, and will never be, enough police to prevent lawlessness on the scale seen on Monday. Hence order is maintained through the consent of the people - ie social disapproval of bad behaviour. Where that social disapproval is not present then the myth of a civilised society breaks down. It is not vigilantism to try and prevent criminal activity - clearly we all need to assess the situation on grounds of personal safety, and trust that others will step into support, or indeed support others trying to intervene. This attitude should apply to low level anti-social behaviour - littering, feets on seats on trains, music playing on mobile phones ect, as much as to more serious harrassment or violence. I had an experience on a train last week, where I asked a young guy to turn his music down - he told me to eff off, it was only when a few others joined in did he back down.