Mick Mac

That's socialist workers for you Gerrard. Their predecessors have grown up and are now voting Tory. ;)

Personally I remember being absolutley delighted when she resigned. But that was partly because I was a Labour supporter then. Her death just gives an opportunity to have a debate and review her "achievements". I certainly am not happy bout her dying and fail to see how anyone coule be. Her demise was when she was voted out by her cabinet, eventually, thank god.

Mick Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Dulwich Squirrel Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > That's awful. Poor form indeed - don't speak > I'll > > of the dead. > > I have never understood that. Should we extend > that courtesy to everyone - What about Jimmy > Saville? >numbers wrote: >you know I think this 'don't speak ill of the dead' thing is a red herring. People on both sides seem to be >(deliberately) confusing this issue. Its a simple point, "dont speak ill of the dead" is a nonsense. Hitler was a complete cunt. There I've done it, I've spoken ill of the dead. I feel terrible.

rgutsell Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hiya all > > Good discussion but......my suggestion waa that we > meet for celebration. > > Howabout about a pub; lets say the Magdalene, next > wednesday? > > Yours > > RNGutsell Yer having a laugh....

Loz has been really Lol recently. Don't you think?

Dulwich Squirrel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That's awful. Poor form indeed - don't speak I'll > of the dead. I have never understood that. Should we extend that courtesy to everyone - What about Jimmy Saville?

Paul O Connell now favourite with betfair for the captaincy.

Fell asleep in.front of tv when I came home from work. :(

Yes Loz....

El Pibe, I don't think your analysis is plain vanilla anything but. I think the controversy lies in your view of who had control of the process which I think you have assumed to be the gvernment and also that the government looked into resolving the problem in any serious way prior to bombs hitting the financial centre is wrong. You credit Thatcher with making positive moves through the "channels" pre Major, but I'm unsure what exactly you were crediting her with. Im not sure why I'm going on about this but as its a thread about Margaret Thatchers legacy. Here is a view from Sinn Feins Danny Morrison about Maggie. I have never been a Sinn Fein supporter but this did remind me of how some people felt such hatred for her. I felt there was no real democracy in Northern Ireland at the time. But people gave their lives for it in many different ways. Thatcher made it significantly worse. . I would argue with anyone who gave credit to MT for Northern Ireland , she didn't stand up to terrorists, she created terrorists. http://www.dannymorrison.com/?p=2538

El Pibe Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why on earth would our positions be polar > opposite? What a bizarre statement. > Polar opposites maybe a bit strong, but we have discussed this area before and Irish v British views are often expected to be very different on this subject. No big surprise therefore that we dont agree.

I read this last night "Thatcher gave approval to talks with IRA" http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/30/thatcher-cabinet-hunger-strike-national-archives But this "channel" was not (as you seem to suggest EP) at this stage anything to do with seeking peace through negotiation - it was damage limitation, instigated by her. An outright concession on political prisoner status that she would never admit to. Jim Prior passed on the concessions. She gave in to the terrorists but too late, the damage was done, people had taken their own lives. The hunger strike deaths set in motion 10+ more years of violence. Completley mismanaged and a disaster for Nortern Ireland. Our opinions on this are likely to be polar opposites, so see it as you wish. Don't forget that the media reporting on Nortern Ireland was controlled by the Northern Ireland Office. As in any war, your views may have been heavily influenced. I suspect they have been. My own mother had such a trust in the British media that she did not believe that Bloody Sunday had happended the way the people of Derry told her it had happended. It took many years before she believed it.

El Pibe Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Was the point I was going to make. Wars sometimes > they have to be fought before they can end. > Her intransigence effectively stalemated the IRA > who thought they could win the war (equally she > was wrong in her analysis that they could be > defeated). I don't know what papers you have been reading EP but you appear brainwashed. Under her governance they were at their most threatening and had most support. It could ahve gone on forever. It was a very frightening time and a scary place to live. Only when the IRA activity was extended to the financial sector (bishopsgate) did John Major take notice and the first sustainable action to resolve for the long term. With her it was always personal, they killed Airey Neave.

Her positive legacy is probably London as a financial centre. From which many have benefitted, and although she lived to see the banking crisis from which we are still recovering, its been a major employer, wealth creator and tax generator for the UK.

Alan Medic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > After his performance yesterday I wouldn't be > surprised if POC is asked to be captain again. Have you read the opening post declan?

It's Ireland I'm interested in of course. Or certainly I only moved to England a year before she retired so most of her reign I expewrienced with no idea I would ever live anywhere else and so its from the Irish perspective that I view her now. She was the last British PM to fail to see that both sides in Northern Ireland needed to be treated equally. Despite the very obvious signs of the desperation being felt. And the extreme attempts being taken to make democracy listen. Today Bloomberg compare her to Cromwell. In Margaret Thatcher's long career, violence in Northern Ireland provided an unrelenting soundtrack. And the conflict did not bring out the best in her. It showed how the character traits for which she is best remembered had some very dark consequences, and how her celebrated "resolve" often came at a brutally high human and moral cost. In Northern Ireland, in fact, that resolve directly obstructed the cause of peace.... ....But Thatcher never took a particularly realistic approach to the hunger strike, or to Northern Ireland generally. As the strikes dragged on, her advisers mulled a plan to "brain wash" a hunger striker to persuade him to give up the cause and upend Republican propaganda. To the larger question of spiraling violence in Northern Ireland, Thatcher proposed a "Cromwell Solution" to her advisers in 1985, in which Catholics in the North would apparently move en masse to the Irish Republic. She also mooted the possibility of redrawing the border separating Northern Ireland from the Irish Republic in a "straight line" to make it easier to defend. These are not the ideas of a realist. They're the ideas of someone who could occasionally show a staggering indifference to human suffering."

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Last Irish man who went up the bell tower didn't > fare too well. "I'm gonna die now...... I think"

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Last Irish man who went up the bell tower didn't > fare too well. I didn't go up. I was too fat.

"Friends who?ve been to Bruges swear by Restaurant Jan Van Eyck (12 Jan Van Eyck Plein), which also seems to have a lot of rave reviews online...if I ever get back to Bruges I plan to eat there." Thanks PennyDreadful....we went there tonight. It was excellent. Garlic scampi were sooo nice. Thx.

I was in there last night Declan! We are 50 yards from there. I did ask and the Dublin barman said it would be on provided it didn't clash with any footie, so will give it a go. Cheers.

Go GG. You tell him. Go get em girl.

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ..any news? Met one last night. He was asking how you were. "How's that clown quids"......he said.

Thanks for all the tips so far and the time taken. I'm trying to convince the group to go to one the options. Would love the steak house.

This thread is so East Dulwich. two jokes in one ...

Great film. But as I'm going there for the weekend, and have done no research, any tips on what to do or see are greatly appreciated. Especially I'd like a restaurant recommendation if anyone has one, mid price. Thanks. Oh and where I might be able to see the Grand National on tv would be good too.