antijen

Rain hitting off your tent.

I like things out in the open too.

Sean You are seriously going OTT, and I mean it, I did not put up a link to insinuate you were lying, it did not even come into mind. I put it up because I found it strange that the only way I knew you administered was by clicking the wrong button one day and being in the section linked. And I was confused when reading your posts on this thread, I thought it may make a diffrence for people reading and understanding who was controlling and also a link into that section. "What does it all mean?" You tell me sean, I know what its about for me.

You put it over in your post that I was unaware it was a debate when of course when people are looking from opposite perceptions it may become passionate and feel personal, this should not take you away from the issue, as this thread has now become for me.

Thanks Sherwick Totally agree.

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?12,266337 My neighbours helped put up link. Keef I am happy and thanks to all who signed, are you suggesting I should not have got into a debate, and supposedly take my diffrent views of this case where? I am being honest of what I feel, and if it be that I'm accused of above, I dont care.

sean. I asked you if you were administrating as I believe you do this on this site at times, but I can't be bothered putting up link, as it takes me so long due to lack of computor skills. I can believe this has been turned just from reading this forum and following threads, it has the feeling of a court room, where the jury is rigged, but who's defending what. When people decide to defend a system that clearly isn't working then they start defending thereselves. I do not feel nor was it my intention to insult individuals on this forum, I am merely expressing my views. annaj Glad to hear you "prefer to get things out in the open" shame about the confidentiality code though.

Have I broken a rule on this forum, I have a neighbor who is a nurse and a friend, and apart from some of the commwents directed at me on this forum, I care passionatly for nurses and patients, if I have broke any rules and if you sean are at the moment acting as adminastrator, I admit I did not read the rules before joining this forum, I also have grown up children who have often thought of posting there views, as individuals, therefore if they share the same ISP as me I take it there is no rule of confidentiality for them, are you saying each time someone puts up a post and has someone using the same ISP who agrees, you as administrated reports each finding. What is your criteria for giving this information. And does it apply if two people disagree using same ISP>

Annaj That's exactly what youve said, "follow rules", the confidentiallity rule, regardless of you saying earlier "On a personal level I feel deeply saddened that this nurse felt she had no choice, but to take the action that she did and that the system failed so completely to care for it's most vulnerable patients, but was the decision right, I still don't know." Sit with your clear consience, leave others who refuse to follow the rules in your safe little bracket, seperating them from you. BNF When all else fails look for anything to distract from the topic, how sad you should put a search on my name, does that remind me of anything? Oh yes lets make this nurse the problem and covers the real issues. You've been taught well, I'm sure you will prosper in this so called healing system. Smg In regards to Nueremberg of couse I was being too confusing for you, who would have thought I thought it was clear enough from my post, (thanks sherwick) I was talking about morals. If only it could be sorted with a lottery win, this womans legal fees will be covered to a point, only after she's been through the appeal system whereas now the union are handling it.

Annaj, who do you think you are? Accusing me of comparing every one to a nazi that doesnt agree with me. Firstly I avoid ED's and the hospital establishments like the plague, but please tell me what hospital you work in cause I'd love to visit your utopia. And as for the "emotive stories" of the patients waiting in A&E's a click on the link below will tell you it's a fact! How emotive is it when 8'500 people are directly affected in a small country like South Wales? People need to bear in mind that the NHS is a NATIONAL business and while things may be managable in your Utopia, why is it emotive to acknowledge the biger picture? Maybe i'm wrong but that sounds kind of unfeeling to me, it's always easier to bury your head in the sand and ignore the real issues when thet're not directly affecting you as an individual, and the real issue is not confidentiality. Confidentiality is broken regularly and has been for years, as soon as your name is called out in a hospital or clinic waitng room, is that not a breech of your confidentiality? There are many different levels, i agree but you either adhere to the rules or you dont, you need to act within your conscience and i think that this is what thisa nurse has done. I took great offence at your earluier comments and referals to Nazies. Is this how you uphold the name of your profession? You implyed that you're a doctor, is it not a tradition to tell family members patient diagnosis, particularly in terminal cases, is this breach considered as being for the greater good? http://www.southwaleslibdems.org.uk/news/000638/8500_patients_waiting_over_4_hours_for_ae_treatment_in_unacceptable__peter_black.html

Yes bnf she fuct up by caring to much and could not carry the abuse in her conscience. In other threads regarding decisions made by individuals who are working with the public/people eg police, army, on expressing my thoughts on this forum, about people who can only follow orders, I've been reminded of Nueremburg, please refer to my link above and read the NMC code of conduct(there is a link within the code going into the confidentiality clause in more detail), this seems to be contradictory at best. To give an example of someone in court for drink driving, is nno comparison.

So Brendan does that mean if infiltrating a drug organisation, they won't break the law having a joint or a line of whatever. Or are you finding it hard to believe that our goverment or secret sections within it would be outside the law unless caught blatently red handed.

Thanks everyone for support on this injuctice. Huegonot The nhs position is brought about by individual trust policy and goverment legislation, meaning the trust (that she was working for) is acting on behalf of the nhs. I have a few friends who are nurses and from what Ive heard the official process is corrupt, in the instance of incident reporting, issues (including the welbeing and safety of patients) can take years to investigate and rectify, if they are rectified at all due to staff turnover, red tape and 'cover up's'. It is also important to bear in mind that no individual trust likes to have bad press. While all this is going on, people are literally dying as a result, you only have to look at your closest ,major emergency a&e department to see that patients are cueing in corridors often without adequate pain relief or a basic standard of care such as adequate toileting facilities, what does this say about the confidentiality of patient? Also, how many people are dying or suffering as a result in the community when paramedicas have to wait in hospital corridors for bed spaces to become available to offload their patients? Staff have become disillusioned and very often complaicent about their jobs because they are mentally and physically drained by working within a system that cannot live up to the expectations of the wider community due to inadequate funding and utilisation of resources. I have learned first hand from two friends, who happen to be senior nurses, of instances of abuse and neglect that they have reported and on numerous occasions proceeded to 'go down the official route' but due to the individual stress and bullying that they have been subjected throughout this process, they are both considering leaving the nursing profession. Is this what we want, the people who actually care about the patients and the name of the profession to be hounded out to allow practices like this to continue? I think you gotta ask yourself who would you rather have caring for you or your family especially with this case, if your old, and may not have the capacity to report complaints yourself and no-one else to do it for you. For anyone who wants to find out more about the case of Margaret Haywood or wants to know more about the real goings on within the NHS, check out the NMC's fitness to practice website page via the link below to check out some current and recent cases. The NMC's code and policies can also be found here. I have also included a link underneath for the GMC's (General Medical Council - Governing Body for Doctors) fitness to practice website with recent cases for your information. http://www.nmc-uk.org/aSection.aspx?SectionID=7 http://www.gmc-uk.org/concerns/hearings_and_decisions/fitness_to_practise_decisions.asp

mockney piers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You don't see the difference between hanging > around a meeting of radicals to find out what > they're planning, and knots of plain clothes > police throwing bottles at uniformed officers? > > Weird. You don;t see that infiltrators would behave in a way they believe radicals behave or are you saying you can only expect that in meetings. Who's to say they aren't part of a group they've already infiltrated maybe even started.

Thanks Pechamrose.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/support-for-whistleblowing-nurse.html This petition is for members of the nursing profession and the general public who want to show their support for nurse Margaret Haywood. Margaret was struck off the nursing register by the Nursing and Midwifery Council for taking part in a television programme which highlighted instances of poor patient care. We believe that Margaret was justified in exposing the worrying conditions at her hospital and that the documentary shed light on matters that the public deserved to know about. Isn't the hippocratic oath about integrity and healing, this woman would have broke this oath if she done nothing,this is scapegoating of the worst kind. This woman is not the problem, questions should be asked about the real problems she highlighted. The system and people who made this decision to strike this nurse off should hang there heads in shame, and maybe take some advice from her, she is being penalised for caring. Any support would be appreciated, the link takes you to online petition.

MP It doesnt make a diffrence to me, I'm sure if enough evidence is given to prove the actions described above I'm sure they would bring intelligence in to it, I don't know what you mean by counter productive but to me it stands linked. Qualitative? Don't get it. The diffrence between the former and latter, not a big difference for me.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/09/crashed-jet-carrying-cocaine-linked-to-cia/ And goverments are doing all they can to bring it under control.

I think they showed no respect for the anger people felt against the war, and didn't think it was right in an area where gun crime was being targeted. A young boy (10yrs) who was in my sons primary class was being showed how to hold the gun properly, I knew this young lad well and his background where there was serious problems. Now you may not have a problem with this but I believe they have no right to introduce kids to guns, this child was with a few friends, no adults with them. I feel the propaganda, used by the army to entice young vulnerable adults is wrong, and many who have took this route regret there decision. Saying that, I sympathise over lives lost and however uninformed soldiers are they take the decision to combat whereas innocent people have no choice.

I thought it was common knowledge that the goverment will infiltrate any group who are a force to be reckoned with. Documentary done a couple of years ago, Tony Benn was told someone close to him was on the other side, his reaction was he would have been surprised if there wasn't someone.

http://london.indymedia.org.uk/articles/1103 I think there are a lot of people angry about this, I've been at family days in Myatts field park, when this country went into Iraq, and although I was told the T.A. was part of the community, I was disgusted to see young children allowed to lift the guns on display, especially as there had been a weapon amnesty bin set up by Southwark council a couple of weeks before.

There was that woman last year, i think, that was followed by private detectives employed through her local council. She actually did live in the area she was applying for, but put off moving until her child got a place in the local school.

brum Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > A real woman doesn't bat an eyelid when a real man > farts very loudly. I have a real woman mate who can fart in tune to a song.

Its easy to go off on diffrent tangents, and this is the first forum I have been on, but I can understand how diffrent topics are related to diffrent sections of the forum. Schools and education whether in east dulwich or anywhere else is a huge topic, I dont see any problem with Snorky opening it up a bit, its linked to many issues. Ive read quite a bit of whats in family room but I have never responded because people are asking for advice and discussing what I know to be a big headache for parents. The politics of local, central goverment on education is so corrupt, I find it hard to get into conversations about which schools are best, statistics and how unfair the system is, because at the core of it is a goverment who dont give a shit about our children.

cassius: I understand why you wouldnt be bothered in the same way as someone going through the school admission procedure, and I also understand that some people may not have been affected to much in there adult life by there schooling, but depending on where you went to school, say a school where it is mostly children from estates or a school with a good reputation ( and it was common for lots of kids at 7yrs to then go private), I believe it could make the diffrence from being frightened to go out on the streets alone rather than feeling you have as much right to walk the streets as the next one. I believe the education system breeds class difference. Sorry I wasnt clearer but it takes me so long for me to type.