pk

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Blah Blah Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The left historically has always been associated > with Trade Unionism and the rights of workers and > therefore working class people would vote Labour. > There is no shared struggle with BAME groups as it > is the white working class that the BAME groups > can easily exploit and do so...grooming, drug > dealing and other atrocities comes to mind. At the > same time Labour and the left has > disproportionately advantaged BAME people in order > to get votes which they have taken for granted > from the white working class. > To quote 'Peaky Blinders'- '....politics has > always been about deliberately making life better > for one group of people, whilst deliberately > making it worse for another group...' (or words to > that effect)...those of you with money, a property > and living in the leafy enclave of East Dulwich > will never understand that as you are cushioned > from it-as are your kids..... Is this sort crap allowed on here? It shouldn?t be UG I guess that you know you?re a racist, so why don?t you just admit it?

Penguin68 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > I can assure you that, particularly in London, but in fact almost > across the country, we are not a racist society - > even though most of us are still aware of > superficial racial/ cultural differences. what an ignorant and arrogant thing to say!

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > pk Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > keano77 Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > How things work today pk might not be how > they > > > work tomorrow. It?s called change or adaption > > or > > > evolution etc > > > > > But as we?re here today why not deal with today > > rather than speculate about some bizarre future > > where countries don?t have free trade > arrangements > > but don?t have border controls either? > > I find this a puzzling perspective. Many remainers > want to berate leavers for not having a clear plan > for the future. And while I acknowledge that > brexit is clearly significant more change than > remaining, the 'status quo' does not exist, the EU > will continue to evolve, so while there is > uncertainty in leaving, there is also uncertainty > in remaining. I don't think anyone can accuratley > predict what the Eu will look like in 10 years > time. You think that dealing with where we are today is a puzzling concept? And that a no deal without borders isn?t? Perhaps you can explain that?

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ?... and mugs like you will fall for it...? > > I have to admire your small c conservatism pk - > your brave attempts to preserve the (EU) status > quo. No adventurer you, boldly prepared to move > forward. > But the real point is that there?s not been enough preparation (bold or otherwise) about moving forward Unless you?ve got sight of all the bold preparation that?s taken place that no one else knows about, then I?d say going on an adventure by destroying plan a without knowing what plan b is a stupid and reckless, so I?m happy not to be an adventurer

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Good point pk. But I?m more interested in the > pressure Barnier is coming under from EU countries > seeking to protect their own interests before the > talks start. His draft negotiating position has > had to be redrafted several times already. I'm more interested in how and when Boris and his BS mates are going to own up to all the lies that they've told and the misinformation that they've spread (based on and taking advantage of ignorance) and the fact that they haven't got any credible plan but in reality, I expect that they won't own up at all and that they'll blame all bad things on the EU being unreasonable and mugs like you will fall for it

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How things work today pk might not be how they > work tomorrow. It?s called change or adaption or > evolution etc > But as we?re here today why not deal with today rather than speculate about some bizarre future where countries don?t have free trade arrangements but don?t have border controls either?

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Thank you, you?ve proved my point. The nasty EU > would impose border checks and your idea is that we let people bring whatever they want in without any border checks and without any free trade agreement? cause we're 'nice' (and stupid?) that isn't how these things work - borders aren't a new thing I guess that the point proved is that you don't know what you're talking about

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Without an agreement with Britain, it would insist > on checks on the border - which might be a threat > to a Northern Ireland peace settlement that > depends to some extent on unimpeded north-south > movement. > > Alternatively, the EU could run checks between > Ireland and continental Europe, but that would > damage Dublin?s economic interests and subordinate > them to non-member Britain?s...? > > > ...it would insist on checks on the border... ie > the EU would insist. > so obviously in the absence of a free trade agreement there'd have to be checks on the border? the EU would obviously insist on checks on goods coming into their region - but you think that we shouldn't have similar checks on stuff coming to the UK in the event of no deal? really?

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > '30% of French fisherman rely on fishing in > British waters' - not exactly reflected in the > fear-mongering headline...OR the statement that > the UK will find it hard to make a deal- the UK > doesn't need a deal..... > https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/16/b > rexit-britain-and-eu-will-rip-each-other-apart-in- > trade-talks you really think that (less than) 30% of French fisherman have a huge influence on 27 countries' trade arrangements?

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Like I said, shit cherry-picking conclusions. > Again. Dodging direct questions again - do you know the difference between questions and conclusions? Classy swearing tho

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Not what I said, that?s what you just said. Your > conclusions are shit. > > This whole thread has been skirting the ?P? word, > but not quite mentioning it - that?s what I?m on > about What a strange person you are - the thread has mentioned the ?p word? lots and your just said ?gotta love the Scots? (in response to some people calling someone a ?paedo c*nt? but perhaps you don?t remember what you?ve written or you just can?t accept that other people being uncomfortable doesn?t have to relate to any specific threat Have you never advised your own children to be cautious of strangers even if they don?t know for sure that they present a threat? Or do you warn them more about ?paedo [being] mainly a family game? and that strangers are never anything to worry about?

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > At least they didn?t call the bloke ?suspicious? > then spend ages skirting around the subject of > exactly why, THEN when someone says Oh you mean a > ?P****? they accuse them of throwing the ?P? word > around ! > Gotta love the Scots, no spineless pussy-footing. so 'I know it seems over the top but i felt uncomfortable' is spineless pussy-footing? and calling someone 'paedo c*nt' is lovable? what a strange person you must be

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I?ve been dipping in and out of the Guardian?s > coverage of the address to the EU Parliament. > > Understandably there?s a lot of bluff and bluster > going on as the EU squares up for what will be > difficult trade talks ahead. > > One thing that is already apparent is that Michel > Barnier will not have such an easy ride as he did > with the Brexit negotiations where there was EU > unanimity as to the integrity of the union. > > Individual EU countries are already making demands > on him to protect their vested interests - > preserving the status quo for fishing rights for > France, Belgium, Ireland and the Netherlands for > example. > > Barnier will have to balance competing EU > interests, provide a deal with fewer benefits of > full membership, try to tie the U.K. to EU rules > and maintain a level playing field. > > A poisoned chalice indeed. Sounds like we?ll have to suck up most of the current rules then, or go no deal

stepdown Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sajid Javid has set out his "vision" for how the > financial services will be impacted: > https://www.cityam.com/ill-give-the-city-the-flexi > bility-it-needs-to-thrive-outside-the-eu/ > > Generally pretty woolly cakeism, but looks like > they'll start off on the basis of equivalence with > a view to diverge over time: > "As we leave the EU with the same rules, achieving > equivalence on day one should not be complicated. > Of course, each side will only grant equivalence > if it believes the other?s regulations are > compatible. But compatible does not mean > identical, and both the UK and the EU have at > different times recognised the importance of > focusing on regulatory outcomes." not exacting taking back control and writing our own rules is it

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You see how boring this has become without me > being an asshole?:) > > You want me on that wall...you need me on that > wall.... I think it was keano that killed it by trying to be weirdly provocative

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > The main point I was making was about the seeming > lack of preparedness we currently observe.... I guess that?s what happens when issues are over simplified - brexit in principle never meant anything specific about Brexit in practice, although the leave campaigners wanted people to believe otherwise (and seem not to have thought thru the practice themselves anyway!) As an aside, you?re much more pleasant to deal with today. That?s good (and hopefully doesn?t sound too patronising)

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > pk Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > TheCat Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > but surely if remain supporting politicians > had > > just acquiesed (under > > > protest) we'd be in a much better position > now > > to > > > approach trade negotiations. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure that i can see any logic in that > > > Surely, any preparations for negotiations were > either torn up when new leadership took over > (which was obviously forced by the splits in > parliament on the issue and the pressure the > government was under) or were continually put off > while the uncertainty over the manner in which > parliament would exit (or possibly not exit) was > ongoing? > > For better or worse this is the first time since > the 2017 election when the government has clear > road to direct the civil service in accordance > with its desires (whether we agree with those > desires is another matter of course)... I don?t think that makes it remainers fault that the leavers don?t know what they want, in practice

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > but surely if remain supporting politicians had just acquiesed (under > protest) we'd be in a much better position now to > approach trade negotiations. > > I'm not sure that i can see any logic in that

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think Boris is making the right noises for now about not extending it. Keep > the pressure on for most of the year, and then as > Blah Blah says...see where we are at come end of > 3Q of the year.... i don't think it applies much pressure - we're the ones losing free trade with 27 other countries, the EU have each got it covered with 26 of them so will lose it with one i also think that Boris is saying things that he knows to be untrue (like that Australia has a deal done) and that isn't a great tactic i also think that if he wants to put the UK in a uniquely strong position, he should try to do something unique rather than re-heat Canada (or tell lies about Australia or 'Withdrawal Agreement' actually being deals) and that'll involve seeking some middleground rather than denying the need for some alignment

Blah Blah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > We won't get everything negotiated by the end of the year. > Pretty much everyone who understands trade deals > knows that. So we probably will end up with a > loose framework where some things are agreed, > while negotiations continue. The question is, does > that mean an extension of the transition, because > until everything is agreed, we technically are in > transition. I think that extending transition should happen and if it doesn't we'll be doing a rushed job at best and doing a no deal at worst

Blah Blah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I suspected that business will flatline for a > little while, until EU trade negotiations are > completed. My hunch is that in order to protect > the cities business, we will have to concede on > things like fishing. We should also be fighting > hard for car manufacturing and pharmaceuticals > (our two biggest export sectors to the EU). "Services accounted for 41% of the UK?s exports to the EU in 2018. Financial services and other business services (a category which includes legal, accounting, advertising, research and development, architectural, engineering and other professional and technical services) are important categories of services exports to the EU ? in 2018 these two service categories made up just over half of of UK service exports to the EU." Canada's deal does not provide for free trade in relation to services in the same way as it does for goods it also took seven years to negotiation

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > KidKruger Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Anyone got any views on the EU trade talks? > > > > Sure let me just Google some so I can appear > informed.... Why not consider actually being informed? Then you might have some ideas as to what to do in practice to minimise the damage that will follow from people voting mostly on a principle without considering the practice (although I should point out that less than half gave that as their main reason according to ashdown) Or do you think that once about a quarter of people who voted have voted on a principle then nothing else matters, in practice? If we?re left in a mess it least it?ll be a mess of our own making, so that?s ok?

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Okay. This has been fun. But I might stepdown > now... reckon you might as well, given that you've said nothing on topic

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > pk Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > TheCat Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > So now you want my opinions??....please make up > your mind as to whether you want opinions or > facts... You don?t think that facts should inform opinions? Maybe be not in your case

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Im not questioning the 'fact checking' of the > website being referenced...as to be honest I > haven't yet clicked on the link. > > But suffice to say that I can imagine the derision > and bile that would spew forth on these pages if > any Leavers posted a 'factcheck' from a site > called ihatetheEU.com...... So you?re not interesting in the facts But you think that it?s useful to comment in sensationalist terms on what people haven?t said about something that hasn?t happened. What?s the point? Haven?t you any opinions on EU trade?