Santerme

mockney piers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Oh and Bosnian War Unfinest Hour is a must read, > it'll put the tories up there with the UN for you, > though from what I've been able to discern of you > so far, a phrase involving grandmothers and eggs > springs to mind. The UNPROFOR deployment was heartbreaking awful and the book you have highlighted is an excellent expose of the crippling behind the scenes Machovellian meanderings of the British Govt. Once the dual key strategy was abolished things became much simpler, you could actually use weapons, then we became more effective. As for the No Fly Zones, the southern one was delayed, IMHO politically motivated. Provide Comfort, and Northern Watch were more successful as they were more immediate and Safe Haven was an excellent deployment of Royal Marines. I have a personal interest in the latter operation my youngest brother, who is a still serving RM officer, was working, on exchange, with the US 10th Special Operations Group who were conducting operations in the mountains in the North of Iraq.

Sherwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Santerme, I disagree with the panel's findings. In > my opinion, all that the nurse needed was to THINK > that going to Panorama would lead to the abuse > stopping QUICKER not IMMEDIATELY. It certianly > wouldn't have stopped IMMEDIATELY if she had > followed due process so why does this immediate > need only apply to not following due process? > Double and illogical standards. > > As for this: "she must first have exhausted all > other avenues of addressing the inadequacies on > the ward". > ALL other avenues? "ALL"? What rubbish! That could > have taken a VERY long time! > > Finally this: "The registrant did not exhaust the > process of making representations". > THANK HEAVENS FOR THAT! Sorry, I fully support her methods, I think morally it was fine, but in the black and white of legalese she has no real defence for her actions. The sanction, I do feel was unduly severe. I am afraid my experience of administrators (I spent three labourious years in a staff job in the MOD) is that they find every reason not to make a decision and once forced to, make the one least likely to be contentious or a future danger to their own position.

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Santerme Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Fresh fish and chips in West Bay and the fact I > > can drive there in 20 minutes, which I will > > probably do thid afternoon having thought about > > it. > > Do you live there now or are you on holiday in > Dorset? I have lived in Dorset for about 15 years in the village of Cerne Abbas. I was just pondering on how much it is like the old days in ED, which was very close knit when I was growing up there. I was born, schooled and a constant resident of ED until my Grandparents moved in the mid 80's.

Fresh fish and chips in West Bay and the fact I can drive there in 20 minutes, which I will probably do thid afternoon having thought about it.

The panel has concluded that, for it to be ?essential? for the registrant to breach confidential information, she must first have exhausted all other avenues of addressing the inadequacies on the ward; alternatively there must be an immediate need. So far as the latter is concerned, there was no immediate need since the Panorama programme would not be screened for some time, that is until after the editorial process had been completed. As to the matter of whether all other avenues had been exhausted, the panel cannot so find. The registrant did not exhaust the process of making representations as to conditions on the ward to management or senior management. This pretty much cooks her goose as it were.

It is an extremely interesting debate and one I think which revolves around the distinction between professional obligation and duties and moral obligations and duties. I had what I consider to be a professional career for 23 years as an Army officer and during that time came across instances of the same dichotomy I would assume that by entering into the nursing profession one takes on certain defined standards of professional behaviour together with obligations to the employer, a Code of Conduct. I would argue that taking on a nursing role is not merely a job entered into for financial reward and therefore it can be seen as a moral endeavour. By and large it is a profession populated by people who want to help others and do good. I would have thought that one of the obligations incumbent on the nursing profession would be to act in a manner to justify the trust of the public. I would also have though there is an obligation not to act in a way which causes harm to the patients. Herein lies the dilemma. Where does the path diverge from moral obligation to the patient and to the employer. My take would be at the point where the good of the patient is being compromised by the employer. My argument would be that nurses obligations to their employers should not be permitted to overshadow the more fundamental duty of care they have towards their patients. What we seem to have created in our system is a conflict of obligations, in a system which only exists because of it?s patients. When is it morally acceptable hurting someone by omitting to help them or improving their care? It seems to me in this instance this person has acted in a way which was for the good of others but which resulted in harm to herself. I would hope that she had exhausted all internal means of changing the situation and had decided that whistleblowing was the only remedy left. And if we acknowledge the earlier submission that nurses work for the good of the patient as their prime motivation for entering the profession, it is a laudable moral position and action to take. Especially, if the sanction taken includes harm to your career. I think that if this nurse had simply gone for the soft option, of using all internal channels to bring the plight of the patients to light and merely left it at that, then it would seem a logical conclusion a low level of care would persist. Personally, I do not find her methods of making this neglect evident to the public onerous. And I think she would have a fairly good case to pursue a claim against her employers, if she had used up all internal mechanisms of complaint, because a medical ethics lawyer could make the case she was being asked to provide a less than adequate level of care, which I would have thought breached whatever code governs the nursing profession in this country.

Melting ice could cause gravity shift The melting of one of the world's largest ice sheets would alter the Earth's field of gravity and even its rotation in space so much that it would cause sea levels along some coasts to rise faster than the global average

World War I (1914?1918) The last war of competing Empires, not a just war for the participating troops. Easter Rising (1916) Bit of a PR disaster for the British Russian Civil War (1918?1922) War over what is termed odious debt, the Bolsheviks were not going to honour Imperial indebtedness. Third Anglo-Afghan War (1919) led Afghanistan to become the first Muslim nation to gain independence. Irish War of Independence (1919?1921) Should have been sorted out in the 19th Century with a Home Rule Bill. Black and Tans not our finest hour. World War II (1939?1945) Just war without a doubt, that should never have happened, failure of collective security. Greek Civil War (1941?1949) 48 Govts between 1920 and 1922, was the prelude. the Truman Doctrine made this one of first Cold War issues. Malayan Emergency (1948?1960) Communist uprising with no popular support from the Malays, so justified intervention. Korean War (1950?1953) Interesting theory that the Korean war was started under NSC-68 by the West as a strategy of tension, the primary framework of orientation, so citizens and governments would support the militarization of the West for control of the world?s resources. Mau Mau Uprising (1952?1960) Result by 1960, there was one man one vote and the Kenyans had all the concessions requested in the first place. Interesting statistic is that by the end of the Emergency the total number of rebels hanged was over 1,000. In comparison, during the Zionist rebellion in Palestine the British had hanged a total of eight guerillas. Cyprus Emergency (1955?1959) Bit of a colonial tiff! Suez Crisis (1956) Not quite sure how we got talked into this one, but ill judged and, in my view the real point at which the so called 'Special Relationship' between the US and Britain died. Brunei Revolt (1962) Shell objected to their refineries being attacked, so we intervened, luckily for the Sultan and descendents. Jeremy Moore who commanded the Marines on the Falklands was instrumental in the defeat of the insurgents in Limbang as a Captain at the time. Dhofar Rebellion (1962?1975) I have heard it said victory in Dhofar was more important than defeat in Vietnam as it was the key to the Straits of Hormuz. One of the most important fighting forces in the Sultinate were Iranians. Indonesia-Malaysia confrontation (1962?1966) Another colonial incident, but in the larger picture it was regarded as a Cold War confrontation. Nuclear weapons were moved to Singapore, V Bombers and Canberra aircraft used both Singapore and Malaya as bases to practice. 48 nuclear weapons were deployed to the area. Northern Ireland Troubles (1969-2007) After four tours, I am just glad there is peace. Cod War Confrontation (1975?1976) Could have been an opera written by Gilbert and Sullivan. Falklands War (1982) Completely justified and a 'just in time' save for the Navy from the cuts being devised by Johm Nott. The First Gulf War (1990?1991) Totally justified use of force. The Bosnian War (1995?1996) I found my contempt for the UN while deployed here. The Kosovo War (1999) I was quite happy that good sense prevailed here from our Div commander, as Wesley Clarke told us to retake Pristina Airport from Russian Spetnez and Airborne forces, but we had a good game of football instead. As for the policy, not Bill Clinton's greatest foreign policy moves. Iraqi no-fly zones (1991-2003) Protecting vulnerable refugees good job well done. Sierra Leone Civil War (2000) A very creditable foreign policy success.

AllforNun Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > mmmm negotiations under Thatcher ! give me a > break...or two ! There were continual contacts with the IRA throughout the Thatcher era, usually via MI5. Robert McLarnon springs to mind and this was continued in the Major administration by Peter Brook, I seem to recall.

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Heavens to Betsy! Don't let DulwichMum catch you > talking about pornographic etchings. Then she would be horrified that both my girls rechalked it whilst at Primary School in the village!!

Andystar Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I've said it before & I'll say it again, Station > Manager Barry!! He'll sort out this country in no > time.. Only if he can do something about the Dorchester to Cerne Abbas bus service. Then he could be PM!

With the utmost respect the TA, moreso than the regular Army, is in touch with local feelings as they are of the community. However, when in uniform they are obliged to be utterly remote in terms of showing support, or lack of it, toward political decisions. Personally in hindsight, and I went in on the first day into Iraq, I feel completely let down by the lies which the Govt proclaimed as gospel truth. I have no firsthand knowledge of the event you attended and it may indeed have been inappropriate in that specific place at that time, but soldiers go where they are told to, even to military displays....and funnily enough in my experience interact very well with children. I have some problem with the use of the word propaganda to recruit, but these things are viewed by different people in different ways and I respect that. I have to say, in the main, that in 23 years, the vast vast majority of individuals I saw go through the Army came out the other end better equipped for life than when they entered (I am, of course, not including wounded or otherwise injured soldiers, that is a completely different debate). We have very few uninformed soldiers in our ranks today, it is an Army which is incredibly technical and our people are held to a high standard.

antijen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > http://london.indymedia.org.uk/articles/1103 > I think there are a lot of people angry about > this, I've been at family days in Myatts field > park, when this country went into Iraq, and > although I was told the T.A. was part of the > community, I was disgusted to see young children > allowed to lift the guns on display, especially as > there had been a weapon amnesty bin set up by > Southwark council a couple of weeks before. Well, all I can say is never move to the US, the fanatical obssession with the need to protect their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is frightening. My wife is Canadian so I spend 3 months of the year in North America. Your post is a little ambiguous are you feeling that the Army advertising is remiss or the defacing of it is wrong? If it is the former, then I think it is perfectly ok to recruit in this manner and I would thoroughly recommend a military career, with the caveat it is not for everyone. If it is the latter, then I fully defend peoples right to protest in this way.

It is with utmost regret I may have to remove myself from the ballot. Apart from being completely new to the Forum, I would have to purchase a third home in the area to qualify. However, on a technical point of order having been born in the area, two score and ten years ago and therefore a native I could sneak in on a basis similar to Phil the Greeks claim to his English ancestory, however, it is nowhere near as illustrious as Sophie of Hanover. More Stan the Steeplejack.

I don't think I was suggesting they have ever been anything but a foreign policy option for the Govt. I teach at the US War College in Carlisle, PA a couple of times a year and I can assure you the level of what was once 'awe' at the professionalism and COIN expertise of the British Army has reduced steadily over the last five years. It has everything to do with this Govt lack of willingness to fund, equip and deploy the necessary resource in terms of boots on the ground into theatre. Take Iraq, the Phase IV element of the plan was the fatal flaw and it was the Pentagon which preferred not to implement the US State Depts model for post invasion policy. It was a political decision imposed with lack of regard for military wisdom. What was needed and indeed the British input at the planning stage required was a Civilian Expeditionary Force in the follow up wave to immediate take control of the infrastructure. Re-employing the Iraqis in meaningful reconstruction projects and local policing would have, in my opinion, gone a long way to stifle the growth of a disaffected population. In fact, intialling re-arming the Iraqi Army and having it guard installations a la French Indo China where the Japanese were reinstalled in security operations was the perfect model. Achieving control with the minimal critical mass of forces employed was essential given the low force numbers which took part in the invasion. 40,000 was enough for us to clear Southern Iraq, reducing to 11,000 as a garrison was woefully inadequate and built in future failure. At 5,500, by the time of the Charge of the Knights, it was a force combat ineffective and capable barely of force protection. The scale of these forces and the budget to back them are and were set by Blair and Brown. Our Government like all governments primary concern is reelection. I absolutely agree with the commander on the spot at that time, which was, it was not worth another drop of British blood to restore the situation. Time for Iraqi's to bring closure, unfortunately, predictably these 'well trained' forces brought in from the North ended up being kicked six ways to Sunday, until some backbone arrived in the form of US Airborne troops. Farce does not do the situation justice. Did Iraq tarnish the reputation of the Army? Yes is the short answer and the honest one. Is is deserved? A portion, but a small portion. Valour is unquestionably the stock in trade of our Armed Forces, dependability is another, even on a shoestring budget these men and women perform beyond the normal call of duty. I did not hear Tim Collin's speech to his men before we crossed the start line, but it is an eloquent and poignant call to arms,tempered with the need for magnanimity. For the most part those who served lived up to his words. It was the politicans posturing who carry the burden of history's damnation. Bush will have his library and Blair his million dollar lecture tours. The Vets, will have inadequate health care, poor housing, lack of job opportunities. They will face crippling injury, loss of normal family life, through mental trauma. And even in their sleep they will not escape the devils in their dreams. And yet, even these may not end up the most notable victims as we leave behind a people promised so much and to whom we have delivered so little for so much loss and destruction. We have not followed Tim's words and trod lightly in their country and that is the shame of it all. Note...I picked last 500 years as we have only has a real standing national army since 16th Century.

Lots of members of the Armed Forces are disillusioned how they are used politically. The stark truth is they are a foreign policy tool deployed by the Government of the day. Unfortunately, this Government have managed to destroy a reputation garnered over five centuries or more in less than three terms of Parliament.

Marmora Man Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Brendan & lozzyloz, > > It is difficult to express exactly what I mean - I > agree nursing, police and fire all are fine > organisations that, in general, do enjoy strong > public support. For some reason the Armed Forces > are less visible - perhaps because fewer people > have experience of the forces. > > While the government of the day pays servicemen's > salaries - the covenant should extend beyond just > pay and conditions. Governments tend to support > what the public supports and the British Legion's > campaign seeks to build greater support. > > There is a phrase "we sleep safe because other men > guard our walls". The covenant is the deal between > those of us sleeping safe and those who are doing > the guarding. > > I have been lucky enough to meet many veterans - a > Wellington Bomber navigator who parachuted out of > a burning plane to spend three years in POW camp, > a sailor who lugged a live bomb, on his chest, > from beneath a submarine casing - aware that at > any moment the submarine might dive (he won the > VC), a young Royal Marine who has, in the last 5 > years been at the forefront of the Iraq invasion > and served two tours in Afghanistan. In every > instance they insisted they have done nothing > extraordinary - all are interesting, articulate > and proud of their service careers, but > disappointed that their wounded colleagues, > families and widows are today not given the sort > of support they had in previous days. > > Somehow British society, as a whole, does not give > the Armed Forces the respect or support I feel > they deserve. It has ever been thus - but the > British Legion's campaign seeks to change that. > > Tommy - Rudyard Kipling > > > Honour The Covenant Thank you for pointing me in this direection and I cannot do much better than to echo the sentiments you have expressed. My tuppence worth is to agree, and posit the question how are you going to make the Military Covenant work, without closer engagement from the British Public? If the British Public are not actively engaged to support us , then the Covenant will continue to be a top down mealy-mouthed exercise in platitude. If the Government say "Let's be warm and fuzzy to the boys and girls, and give them what they want" how long do you think it will be , before we're accused of taking money from the NHS, Education , Welfare etc? We can't deflect criticism, until the British Public are shown exactly why the Military Covenant is so important. It can't happen , until the British Public are made to feel a part of it. Anyone remember the Falklands Factor? Yes we launched an expeditionary force, which retook the Islands, and the Iron Trout made the most of it. But, the reporting was in close and personal, and the MoD made damn sure at that time, that the public understood why they were doing it, and why public support was crucial. Then again, MoD was top heavy with people that had been in a shooting war, and they were dealing with editors who'd sent their fair share of dispatches via carrier pigeon from Normandy. What RBL is doing, is admirable, but it is not enough on it's own. We need to up the Military presence in the media considerably, that includes mainstream programming. scripts in Eastenders/Corrie/Hollyoaks etc. More material showing what it means to be on the thin end of the spear, and how it relates to the public at home. We need to take the 5 minute slots in Cinemas before the film starts for "Helmand report" tie the damn reports to local regiments in local areas, get them talked about. It means better access for the media to our colleagues on operations, and more "The story of Pte. Bloggs from your street" We need to get the public thinking "That could be my son, daughter. husband, wife, best mate" etc etc , what can I do to show I care. We need to channel that concern , into exercises where the public can manifest it's concern into physical acts if they so feel. I don't mean lip-service ribbon campaigns and the like that are gone as soon as they start, and back to square 1. I mean a constant "background hum" concerning our people. Constant reminders that they are not Dessies clad automatons, but they've hopes, dreams and aspirations. It is not impossible to get the public to engage at an emotional level. Look at what some local TV stations do, like Central. Embed reporters, and make sure they are on hand when the guys and girls get home. The surge of pride when the Staffords got back, was palpable, Central couldn't have shown their pride more, if it was their own staff that had been on the OP. That's in spite of MoD, not because of them. Start the ground swell at local level and build it up, not the other way round, with yet another bloody mean-nothing decree, which the public will lump with all the other crap they've heard. None of this, not one single thing, is going to be worth a damn if we don't get the British Public onside.

I know the row of shops you mean. There used to be an old time shoe repair shop in that row and a Greengrocers, we called Veezies (no idea why, but grew up doing it). I do know that my Mother left me outside that shop in my pram and went home, only for my Grandmother to ask where I was, as she had me with her when she left. So slight panic, but it was 1958/9, and things were a little different! I seem to recall there being a betting office nearby too, it was called Gus Ashe, I think it was bought out by Mecca subsequently.

Not being able to think of a incredibly witty response to this thread title.

Appreciate the heads up. Thank you!

With a mother like that no wonder Max lives life in the 'fast' lane!

Absolutely, this existed under the Conservatives, in fact, the entry requirement has been more lenient under Labour. There are some issues, which transcend party lines. Duty and Honour are two. All governments have a covenant with the military. In very simple terms it goes like this. We will go out and fight your wars and risk life and limb for you, in return we have an unspoken pact which amounts to an absolute duty of care to those in the firing line and in support of them, both whilst serving and beyond. This ethical obligation goes back to the time of Henry VIII This pact extends to those who, in service to this Nation, fight alongside us. Unquestionably the Gurkha falls into that catergory and undoudtedly they and their families should benefit from the same rights and privileges as all other service personnel, including the right to reside in the land I and they took an oath to protect. An oath incidentally, not to the Government, but to the Crown. 40,000 Gurkhas died in the line of duty and won 13 Victoria Crosses. Gordon, listen to Joanna, do the right and honourable thing and YOUR duty to OUR nation.

My father was a Gurkha officer and three of them carried him out of the Borneo jungle after he had been wounded, it took almost a week. Subsequently, over a period of 3 years he had his right arm amputated almost to the shoulder, but otherwise he would have surely died. I served 23 years in the army and had reason to be thankful for their presence a couple of times, although I served in a different infantry regiment. British soldiers fight for money too, it is called a salary. "As I write these words my thoughts return to you who were my comrades, the stubborn and indomitable peasants of Nepal. Once more I hear the laughter with which you greeted every hardship. Once more I see you in your bivouacs or about your camp fires, on forced march or in the trenches, now shivering with wet and cold, now scorched by a pitiless and burning sun. Uncomplaining and endure hunger and thirst and wounds, and at the last your unwavering lines dissappear into smoke and wrath of battle. Bravest of the brave, most generous of generous, never had a country more faithful friends than you". - Sir Ralph Turner I am an ardent patriot (as opposed to Jingoist) and I feel ashamed to be British at this moment in time. Could our ZaNu Labour Party misread the public mood anymore incorrectly. I have never seen a Party try so hard to become unelectable in the 32 years I have been able to vote. These people as a race have pledged their loyalty to Great Britain and they hold our traditions in higher regard than many of those that do already reside under the shelter of our free democratic system.

The shelter inside the square was immediately as you went through the second arch in on the left travelling from DKH along Pytchley Road and was a standard Surface Public Air Raid Shelter made of brick with a concrete slab roof. Those in between the estates on the green (as we used to call it) were submerged except for a two tier stucture, again brick with concrete roofs. The surface shelters were rarely used by people as they were not particularly safe, the concrete roof was in one piece and fell in if hit. Theses shelters were designed for about 50 people. I do not recall more shelters in the other estates, but there may have been. The most prevalent means of protection were trench shelters dug in the parks, which were boarded or concrete lined. For example the one in Kennington Park, which suffered a tragedy in which 104 people were killed, only about 40 were recovered, the rest are still under the park. One of my American colleagues is interested in the Blitz/V weapons and I was discussing growing up in an area of London, which was still not, by any means, fully rebuilt from the damage caused by war. And I was 5 in 1963 when I went to DKH, and the area was a playground paradise of bomb ruins. Both my Grandfathers served in the First War and were ARP Wardens in the area throughout the Second and had some rather ghoulish stories of those times too!!

Just come across this forum. My Grandparents lived in Petworth House for 20 odd years and I went to DKH School, many moons ago. There used to be an air raid shelter in the square, next a small green and bike sheds. Between the estates there were air raid shelters all the way up the hill. The corner of Bromar road was a bomb ruin and there was alot of damage opposite the school at the top of the hill. We used it as a playground, slipping through the corrugated iron fence. This is going back to the early 60's. Opposite the estate across DKH was a cricket field and more bomb damaged area. The stretcher fences were there when I was growing up, I remember them well and have photos somewhere I imagine. I have not been back into the square for at least 25 years.