Santerme

Whynniard Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This forum seems to be inhabited by some odd > types, people's republic ? or are people miss > posting ? Anyway ...that's interesting S, i was > joking about the tanks, it was really a reference > to the light skinned vehicles that are being > driven around in Afganistan, however a lot of the > deaths seem to be occuring while out on foot > patrol.... > > "were you really told your mission was to capture > Bin Laden ? " > > actually maybe a new thread - For my part, from memory, there were less than 300 of us in Kabul in a mentoring role with the ANA, during the time I was there and we had suffered less than half a dozen casualties to the time I left. Anaconda was going on in Tora Bora, but we had not yet established the PRT and battlegroup to protect it at that point in Helmand. As to capturing OBL, there is a 1600 page report from the Royal Marines which is devasting in its criticism of the US mission to take him. It was a complete cluster and allowed him to simply walk over the border into Pakistan. Regarding IEDs these are not a new phenomena to the army, we dealt with them for many years in Northern Ireland, mostly culvert bombs which wreaked some devasting results over time, these were mostly command detonated. Iraq provided a different challenge, of course and it is the success of the IED there, which has driven the change in tactic in AFG towards the more effective use of these. The Taliban know that in a force on force engagement they are going to come of a very very poor second every time. The main problem is devoting huge financial and manpower resource against a device conjured up on a $50 budget, built around an artillery shell, or home made explosives. In fact, the Joint Anti-IED Task Force is fronted by a US two star and has an annual budget of some $3 billion. Personally, I have very serious concerns about the current mission, but you might be right a different thread may be in order.

Horsebox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well are they? > > No. > > The London Petanque Associaton league is currently > topped by 2 teams, each made up of French and > Algerians. > > The bastards! Coming over here and taking our > trophies! > > See the Battersea Park thread for details on how > to exact your revenge! At least tell me they are crap at Morris Dancing, the whole fabric of rural life depends on it!!!

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > BBC 3 showing entire Killers set at T in The > Park... 16th July in Carhaix, with Bruce....going to be there!!

LE, it is a huge generalisation you make and perhaps it is more of your time than mine. Whilst I live in the rural idyll of the South West now, I and many of the friends, with whom I have maintained contact over the years all hailed from the bomb ruins of East Dulwich. I went to Dog Kennel Hill School. I graduated Durham with a Double First in English and History and Sandhurst fifth in my class. Of those I went to school with one is a multi millionaire software house owner, another runs a very successful building company, one is a Vicar, another is a microbiologist living in California, yet one more is quite a famous photograher who specialises in interiors of very expensive houses and although was back this week lives in Singapore. I know at least one other is a GP. Among the others are some who have had misfortune and less success in life, but I would not catergorise any of them as indolent. All of them apart from Martin, who is black and the millionaire are white and came from working class roots. Obviously, I can only speak for my generation as I said and naturally I think the climb was steeper in my day. Oh, both my brothers went to DKH School, one is a Major in the Royal Marines the other a very senior fire officer in the London Fire Brigade.

I always stayed in the relative safety of the British Embassy, more accurate would be the military mission, in Kabul when I was there last, but that was 2002. I thought we were there to catch OBL, then we got into rooting democracy, what is the new imperative? Tanks are fairly worthless in AFG, btw.

Are we at WAR?

Whynniard Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You would have thought that " 8 British soldiers > killed in 24hrs" would have been a huge story and > a even larger headline ? BBC Website currently > leads with ...................." Troops fighting > for UK's future" !!!!!!!! > > does anyone else find that slightly odd ? It seems well reported to me

Or perhaps Oliver Wendall Holmes

My limited understanding of this issue is that asylum seekers are administered by the UK Border Agency, that accomodation is directly contracted by the UKBA with local authorities and private providers. Asylum seekers have no input into where in the country they will end up, and that this process is totally seperate to social housing lists. Only once they have been granted leave to remain or refugee status do they appear in the normal way on the housing list. I can see no reason why this is a problem. As for being the most desired destination. In 2006 there were almost 600,000 registered refugees with the UNHCR, almost 300,000 wanted to travel to Europe, only 26,000 wanted to come to the UK. Having some little experieince of refugee movements in some interesting places around the world, I can say that the vast majority of refugees end up in the adjoining country, and overwhelmingly they want to return to their homes as soon as possible, even if to just eek out a subsistance living from their own soil. It is also interesting to note and I have only managed to see figures for a decade ago, but back in 1998/9 refugees to this country actually made a contribution of 10% more in tax and NI than the services they consumed. 53% of refugees have academic qualifications, roughly 30% have first or post graduate degrees. 65% speak more than two languages in addition to their own. Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud, Michael Marks (the founder of M%S) were all asylum seekers in their day. Alec Issigonis, creator of that icon of Britain in the 60's, a refugee. Perhaps, I have strayed too far from the initial thread intent!

The Stalker with a Walker....

I remember their saveloys from the shop in Camberwell. Frightening how long ago that was!

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > woofmarkthedog Wrote: > Not enough social housing stock & a stupid policy > of "right to buy" council houses many of which got > sold on at a profit. > I heard last week of a London housing assoc/scheme > building houses in Worthing to give people a > chance to live somewhere decent > > Are you implying that living in Inner London is > not "decent" Woof? :)) > > btw: Yesterday I returned to Walworth near where > Dr. Crane had his practice. > > I saw more anti-social behaviour in 10/15 minutes > than I have done on x years elsewhere...lol > > There was the drunk White Woman abusing everyone > she passed followed by an equally drunk Guy who > she met up with later and they both started > abusing people. Then there was the crazy > Rastafarian Guy who burst into the betting shop > and called everyone "bitches" and acted crazily > out on the street. Then we had a Mixed couple > arguing loudly followed by a Mixed Raced > Woman/Girl bashing her fist into her hand > continually shouting to the Guy she was with "I'm > gonna xxxxxx her" ( can't remember the charming > phrase now) ....4 episodes in around 10 minutes > from 4 different groups...how I miss the > "vitality" of my Walworth..lol That's Weymouth in high season. Are Northerners indigenous

Keef Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Santerme, I suspect Tony was just responding to my > post, which specifically mentioned a white british > person. I doubt he was implying that only white > british people benefitted from right to buy. Ah, poor reading skills on my part

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Very good post, as usual, Keef. You make some very > salient points and are able to do so without > rancour. > > The Guys who mentioned that only 2% of people born > o/s The UK are prioritised thus rubbishing the > claims made about priority treatment conveniently > omit to mention that most people from abroad > joining our system do so, nowadays, on the basis > that they will be housed by, as you say, a social > services department who will find private > accomodation for them. > > Your scenario? > > Of course it is wrong for anyone to abuse the > system and many do ( many Council places are > "Sub-let", many Women get places on the basis > there is no Man around to support them and the > children but the Man does live there but makes > sure he is not around when "visitors" from The > Council arrive. etc etc.. > Many are on a higher priority level because of > "imaginary" violence.... > > All abuses are wrong and The Council place should > be forfeited and not be passed down the > Generations. > > Many people living in The Suburbs now have done so > on the back of profiting from the sale of their > Council place. > > So I agree there have been many "White/British" > abuses, as well. It is interesting that you think that it is White/British abuse to have profited from the purchase and sale of a Council property. Why is that abuse of the system? I know many non caucasians who benefitted equally from it.

mockney piers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm not sure why you lot are engaging with a man > who has plenty of previous 'debating' a single > narrow point over 20 pages, mostly with himself, > who produces made-up or tainted statistics, but > counters other arguments only with anecdotal > evidence. > > Plus the debate is missing the point. As Bob says, > it's a safety net or it's a right for everyone. > If the former is the case then anyone who can > afford rental has no entitlement, if you can't the > DSS will provide housing benefit until such time > as housing becomes available, clearly also the > experience for the vast majority of immigrants. > > If you feel it's a right then blame thatcher who > sold the housing stock, which lets face it the > occupiers were quick to snap up, didn't hear much > 'no, this is social housing lets jot deplete the > stock and exacerbate the waiting lists'. Blame all > subsequent governments who have massively under > invested in social housing and attempted to put > sticking plasters over the situation. > Don't blame the councils who can only firefight > and don't blame the immigrants for goodness sake. I think this pretty much nails it, MP. I actually have a lot to thank Thatcher for as I benefitted hugely from the council house sell off. I bought my grandparents house in Kennington when it had incresed five fold in value and sold it when it had done the same again over seven years. There is a five year waiting list for a council house in Dorset and we have very few immigrants here I can assure you. Much of the lack of social housing stock in the villages is caused by resistance from the residents to having it built, planning can be held up for years. We eventually built five house on the edge of our village, after the main objection was overcome, which was there would be nowhere for the locals to walk their dogs if they were constructed. We live in the middle of a green field, called Dorset, FFS! You may gather I was not one of the objectors.

Talk about a three ring circus, and I say that not with any disrespect for the deceased, but rather with sadness over the triviality of the American character. Some great music though, if only they could have cut the crap from in between.

'Dot is a program that performs graph layout and can generate an X-windows based display of a graph from a text input file'.

Someone matching this description arrived in Weymouth this evening

AllforNun Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ooh thanks for that .clears it right up. Well it's just the rest of the World now then, progress is progress!

mockney piers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The US has spent much of the post war period > throwing it's orb about lets face it, I don't > thunk it a coincidence that they didn't sign up to > the ICC, and I would he delighted to see Bush and > Blair end up in a dock in the Hague. I think > there's a pretty strong case frankly, but I don't > see the political will so it won't ever happen > sadly. > > If it did it would set a marvellous precedent that > might doesn't make right a d might encourage a tad > more circumspection in future leaders prone to > military adventurism. > > Mind you, that Spamish judge, he doesn't mind > ruffling feathers, like oni wan kenobi, he's my o > ly hope ;) We have this conception that justice is universal, but unfortunately we have yet to develop the right methodology to administer it. That has consequences for international criminal justice, because there is no proportionality.

AllforNun Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > nonsense ! > > bomb and be bombed thats the spirit ! OK!

I would just like to add my condolences as others have here to the families, friends and survivors of this tragedy. Nuff said really!

Thank you, I appreciate your kind comments!

Personally, I think it matters a great deal. Article 51 of the UN Charter was cited as the authority to invade, unfortunately anticipatory self defence requires an imminent threat to have any standing in customary international law. Clearly, there was no immediate threat to the US or its coalition partners from Iraq. In fact, you could argue a greater level of threat existed already from Korea than had ever been the case for Iraq and if we are dealing in potentialities, then Iran must be invaded as a preemptive measure. Adaptation by force, or might is right is a pretty scary way to decide international issues. On another note... I worked with Rupert in Northern Ireland, he was a top, top man and it was an absolute pleasure and honour to work alongside him. Absolutely floored by his loss in AFG, my thoughts are with his young family and with the Welsh Guards. I have never had the good fortune or privilege to meet Trooper Hammond, but it is no less of a loss. RIP to both men. A sad loss to the British Army.

mockney piers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > cheers for that Santerme. I appreciate your > honesty. I can't say I was convinced by the case > that was made preinvasion but luckily I had the > luxury of not being involved. > > I've no idea to what extent the army, tool though > it may be, can tell a government to bugger off if > the request is illegal, but I seem to recall that > there was concern in the upper echelons of the > military and Goldsmith's last minte Yes was key in > getting the whole endeavour done. > > Any inside info on that, OS Act notwithstanding ;) It is no secret that many people who had input into the planning process had very serious doubts over the US decision to proceed with the invasion with clearly inadequate troop levels, indeed the US Army Chief of Staff was removed and replaced in the run up for disagreeing with Rumsfield, who in my opinion is the most intellectually bankrupt person EVER to have held an official position in any US Administration. This situation was further exacerbated by the Turkish denial of a point of entry from their territory for the US 4th Infantry Division. The war was actually unaffected by the overall lack of boots on the ground, it was the follow up operation which suffered and it is Phase IV that determines (or at least secures) victory in any conflict. There are certain force ratios which are metrics used to determine number of troops to civilians required in order to maintain order. In Iraq we were woefully short in this respect. The British re-armed sections of the Iraqi Security Forces in the immediate aftermath of the conflict to provide local protection for what we considered essential facilities. The Americans insisted in full disarmament and proceeded on the fatally flawed policy of de Baathification. Disbandment of the IA, sending trained men into the arms of the insurgency, with their weapon caches in most cases. I can vividly recall arguing with a US Marine provost captain about his attempts to disarm a group of locals I had tasked to protect a medical storage shed in my AOR. I pointed out that even MacArthur had rearmed the Japanese Army to restore order in some areas of the Pacific to prevent a power vacumn and we had done the same in French Indo China until the French could redeploy enough troops to fill in. (I am not justifying this colonialism, before I get that accusation thrown in). He finally got the drift, but it got quite tense! Where the British armed forces excel above all others is, believe it or not, in de-conflicting situations, it is diametrically opposite from US force projection philosophy. Having strayed off the point...... The military really have no input into the decision making process about what is a foreign policy matter, except to say whether in its considered opinion, what is being asked of it, is possible. It is the military's role to facilitate not to make policy.