The falklands islands

[DrDom]

See the Argies are looking for a bit of 'argie bargy' again.

[mockney piers]

Theyre just trying to get a better negotiating position. We won't be able to get he oil out logistically without argentinian cooperation. They just pushing for a better slice of the oil pie when the deal is inevitably made.

And do remember that we nicked it off them in the first place. Other than the falklands/malvinas sticking point, Argentinians have a huge amount of repsect and love of all things British. I've been there, indeed my brother used to live there, and we Brits are suprisingly popular there.

[MitchK]

I think it might be a good time for the Argies to have another go. The UK is skint and I expect there would be little stomach for a fight. Personally, I hope we send a couple of nuclear subs out to the area by way of gentle reminder.

[mockney piers]

with all that oil I dont think the UK can afford not to hang on to them surely.

[KidKruger]

I thought I read some where that the Falklands (as they are now called) were purchased from Argentina, wasn't there am actual receipt/contract in the shown in the papers a few years back when the 'war' kicked-off ?

Not saying I know, saying I think.

[????]

They were discovered and inhabited by the British

[Huguenot]

"And do remember we nicked it off them in the first place"

Desperate Quisling words.... ;-)

Apparently the French built the first settlement on these uninhabited island in 1764, and the Brits in 1766 at the other end.

The Spanish helped themselves to the French colony in 1767 and burnt out the Brits and claimed sovereignty. Then they let the Brits back in for expediency's sake.

The Brits disappeared a few years later as they were skint, leaving a sign saying 'Ours. Back soon'.

The Spanish administered the colony from Buenos Aires unti 1811. They also left a sign saying 'Ours. Back soon'

The Argies were the last to arrive, and estalished a colony in 1828. They put up a sign saying 'Ours'

The Brits came back in 1833, pointed out the 'Ours. Back soon' sign, and observed that just because the Argies had broken into someone else's house, they couldn't claim it was theirs.

So the islands were uninhabited, colonised by Europeans, and the Argies turned up late and occupied as an invading force for only 5 years.

Conversely the Brits have been there for 200 years, and most importantly the residents voted to be British.

If anyone were to claim the islands had been stolen, it would be the Spanish, and they certainly hadn't granted the islands to the Argies.

[mockney piers]

Choice words. Doesn't deny that we nicked it off the argies, i never said there was anyone living there. Theft is still theft.

Just because you have squatters doesn't mean they own the house now does it.

But it was a long time ago and possession is i guess 9/10ths.

By the spanish claim token of course, we should really get washington back shouldn't we?

[Huguenot]

Well that's right, but it was the Argies who were squatting.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Oh, my memory does me proud sometimes. I read an article by Hector Martinez - an Argentine - with an interesting and face-saving solution.

If you want to skip the history lesson, go to about 3/4 down the article.

Proposed idea for a negotiated settlement

[Brendan]

I?m just working this out from Huey?s dates. If Britain claimed the islands in 1766 and Argentina has only existed since 1816 how could Britain have stolen them from Argentina?

[mockney piers]

Great link PGC; Brendan, because when Briotain recognised the newly formed Argentinian state it recognised her territorial integrity and Argentina was recognised to have to be in possession of them when Britain reneged on that and took them again in 1833.

I'm pretty sure that they'd have been happy to lease them to us as a useful naval stopover, but we just helped ourselves.

Oh and loved the bit about the Monroe doctrine principal of not wanting foreign influence in the americas, when what it really means is European influence.

[mockney piers]

anyway, ancient history; a compromise will eventually worked out.

We were actually trying to be shot of them a while back, but were unable to persuade the islanders to go for changed sovereignty.

Of course all a bit different now there's lots of oil in them thar waters.

[Brendan]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Brendan, because when Briotain

> recognised the newly formed Argentinian state it

> recognised her territorial integrity and Argentina

> was recognised to have to be in possession of them

> when Britain reneged on that and took them again

> in 1833.

> I'm pretty sure that they'd have been happy to

> lease them to us as a useful naval stopover, but

> we just helped ourselves.

Ah I see now. I was ignorant of the actual history but have now done some reading. Thanks for the link PGC.

Briotain eh?

[????]

well maybe but the oil thang was being mooted back in 1981 and still not a barrell.

[Brendan]

I suppose it is not completely but almost entirely unlike the Scottish Nationalist claim to North Sea oil. Except most of the army is Scottish so if Britian went to war with them they?d get a proper kicking.

EDIT: To avoid offending the Welsh

[buggie]

My Dad was on HMS Endurance when the '82 war kicked off, I understand that the war was in part kicked off by the Argentinian government to try and increase their popularity and was fuelled by reports from the UK that as part of defence cuts they were going to cut the South Atlantic Taskforce (darling John Nott*) rather than anything about oil.

There was lots of warning from Endurance (esp from their Captain Nick Barker) about groups of Argentinian "fisherman" who were arriving on the island and really not doing much fishing... the government were pretty patronising, and tried to accuse Captain Barker of trying to kick up a fuss so that the need for the taskforce was reconsidered.

The rest is history - the "fisherman" were the reccie crew for the invasion and so in April instead of heading back the the UK, the Endurance (being bright red n'all) had to go and hide in the South Georgian fjords for 6wk (Mum was stuck in the middle of Suffolk with a 4yr old and a 2yr old with no idea if Dad was dead or alive) while the helicopters and marines they'd had onboard did as much as they could.

The ship finally returned home to a hero's welcome after 10mths away instead of the 5/6 mth tour they'd planned. Nick Barker's career was pretty much finished by the comments he made against the government but was always held in v high esteem by the crew and supporters of the ship.

*saw a quick clip of the Robin Day/John Nott interview where he walked out the other day - don't know for sure but it sounded like RD was asking about the falklands war/south atlantic taskforce.

[steveo]

I heard that it's in their constitution that every president must challenge the Brits on the issue at every opportunity or be in breach of Argy law, so it's not going to go away easily, oil, sheep, fish, wind, whatever the harvest.

[DrDom]

Well if it does kick off again, we should take Buenos Aires, capture Maradona, chops his hands off and parade him around the streets as part of the victory parade.

[steveo]

Both hands seems a bit strong

[DrDom]

Yeah, but we would leave his feet.

[The Chair]

Try and keep the discussion sensible chaps.

Gracias.

[Magpie]

Britain, while recognising the Argentinian state did not recognise their claim to the Falklands. The islands were unoccupied during the period after the Spanish left in 1811 to about 1826 when the Argentinians attempted to settle the islands, however, the British maintained that they had a claim to the Islands during this period. The Islands were not stolen from Argentina. The Islanders are, and want to remain, British, and hence should be offered full protection in their status as British Citizens.

[Brendan]

It seems to have then already been a point in contention though. According to PGC?s earlier link:

?On November 6 1820, 4 years after becoming independent, Argentina formally took possession of the islands through an expedition commanded by the American officer David Jewett. Upon arriving to the islands Jewett proclaims the Argentine sovereignty on them. This proclamation was published the following year on the papers ?El Redactor? (C?diz, Spain) and the ?Times? of London. No formal claim was done by any foreign government (Etchebarne Bullrich). In 1828, Argentina appoints her first Governor to the islands, Luis Vernet, who takes off to the islands to establish a colony. Once Governor Vernet was established there, one of the first things he does is to protect Argentina?s interests by trying to stop the foreign vessels which went there to poach sea lions.?

[Brendan]

It is also worth noting that a country?s sovereignty or claim to territory does not rely on whether Britain recognises it or not.

I do however think that the will of the local inhabitants is the most important thing.

Although the cynic in me does suspects that any large country could very quickly forget about a few thousand islanders who want to be part of it if their islands weren?t of some strategically advantage.