Jump to content

Recommended Posts

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Pro-Palestine-Anti-State-Of-Israel has been a

> leftie 'given' for as many years as I can

> remember, but let's be honest, Ken's lost the plot

> on this one.

>

> There might have been some kind of point in there

> (more of a historical footnote than a point I

> suppose) - but the attempt at making it and, worse

> still, trying to turn it into anything of value or

> worth that somehow means something in the current

> debate defies belief.


This ^

I think disproportionate criticism of Israel can be a signifier of anti-Semitism. This is well recognised. We hold Israel to higher standards than other nations in the Middle East because it is a liberal democracy and it claims proudly to be one. But at times, this does become disproportionate and the language and tropes used are certainly anti-Semitic.
The question is often asked as to why people focus their criticism disproportionately on Israel, as opposed to say Iran. The answer is exactly as Taper says, that we hold Israel to higher standards, they are supported by Western governments and that it may be possible for Western governments and politicians to influence Israeli policy (as an ally of ours). So yes, it's unbalanced, but I don't think that in itself signifies antisemitism.
Is Israel criticised more than Iran? Until the recent rapprochement, Iran was deemed a part of the "Axis of Evil", and deeply criticised both officially and in the press. Even now I don't think you'll find any serious public political person who'll claim Iran is a freer or in any way better state than Israel. On the other hand, Iran is brought into the argument often when Israel is criticised. "You built a massive wall to keep one part of your population from reaching another part of your territory". "Are you saying Iran is any better?".

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is another good summary imo:

> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labo

> ur-antisemitism-row-ken-livingstone-naz-shah-jerem

> y-corbyn-a7006176.html

>

> I think Ken should be kicked out of the party

> personally. He's too divisive a figure and his

> bringing Hitler into a rebuttal against

> allegations of antisemitism, is pretty bizarre and

> unhelpful.

>

> That said, there is a lot of mischief making on

> the part of Guido et al. and I don't buy the

> accusation that there is some bigger problem with

> the Labour Party being antisemitic generally.


I think the fact that many in the PLP have spoken out so ferociously against this demonstrates this, generally - in contrast to you know who and his mate - but the general Labour party is not the problem here. The problem is with the extreme bits of it who bizzarley hold the reins of power. Who bought Ken back into the fold? Who describes Galloway as a friend? Who appointed Milne?


Of course Guido etc will make mischief - as bloggers on the left do - they don't have to dig very far to find this sort of stuff though and long mat they contine exposing it in my opinion.


Predictably, they the mainstream Labour people, are getting slagged off by the normal Corbynistas on social media with Blairites/red Tories etc etc for standing up against prejudice, even Owen Jones got the treatment yesterday FFS!

More horseshit, I'm afraid. Like the way everybody who does not support J Corbyn is described as 'right wing'.


The only allegation of any substance is this:


"There is a large crossover between right-wing, anti-Corbyn Labour and the pro-Israel lobby within the party"


but there's no real evidence to support it.


Because it's horseshit.

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This makes for an interesting read.

>

> How Israel lobby manufactured UK Labour Party?s anti-Semitism crisis.


That's serious tinfoil hat stuff. Especially the bit about the "right wing" of the Labour party.


I'm a bit torn on this one. Not sure what Livingstone said was directly anti-Semitic, but he was in the midst of defending someone who had been making anti-Semitic comments. And Ken has previous form of dabbling in a bit of anti-Semitism himself.


But I think the decision to suspend him was a furious piece of kneejerk attempted damage control by Labour. I suspect Ken will be back soon.

miga Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's certainly taken attention off the Tory Brexit

> split. Live blogging the Labour "anti-Semitism"

> crisis. Wonder what this will do for Sadiq Khan's

> chances.


Here we are:


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-try-to-link-sadiq-khan-to-antisemitism-row-despite-condemnation-a7006261.html


"Have you stopped beating your wife?".

Anti this anti that. When will we realise what we have in common as humans is greater and more important than our differences. It's like one is right and one is wrong, so pick a side. I do it too. I think the Israeli occupation of Palestine is obnoxious. But am I right or wrong? I don't know. Am I anti Semitic? Fuck no. You believe in a religion is your right however stupid it might be. I'm presumably anti Christian too...?

I have a signed hardback copy of 'If Voting Changed Anything, They'd Abolish it. ' by Ken Livingstone

Published September 7th 1987


I met him at a book signing in Holborn WHS.

Having been a supporter of livingstone at that that time, I cannot say that meeting the man was that remarkable..


Can't say I have much if not any respect for the man these days... I think he is an idiot.

Not as clever as I once thought he was.


DulwichFox

  • 11 months later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Here's the part of march46's linked-to Southwark News article pertaining to Southwark Council. "Southwark Council were also contacted for a response. "Councillor James McAsh, Cabinet Member for Clean Air, Streets & Waste said: “One of Southwark’s key priorities is to create a healthy environment for our residents. “To achieve this we closely monitor legislation and measures that influence air pollution – our entire borough apart from inland waterways is designated as a Smoke Control Area, and we also offer substantial provision for electric vehicles to promote alternative fuel travel options and our Streets for People strategy. “We as a council support the work of Mums for Lungs and recognise the health and environmental impacts of domestic solid fuel burning, particularly from wood-burning appliances. “We are currently updating our Enforcement Policy and changes will allow for the issuing of civil penalties ranging from £175 to £300 for visible smoke emissions, replacing the previous reliance on criminal prosecution.  “This work is being undertaken in collaboration with other London boroughs as part of the pan-London Wood Burning Project, which aims to harmonise enforcement approaches and share best practice across the capital.”
    • The solicitor is also the Executor. Big mistake, but my Aunt was very old, and this was the Covid years and shortly after so impossible to intervene and get a couple of close relatives to do this.  She had no children so this is the nephews and nieces. He is a single practitioner, and most at his age would have long since retired - there is a question over his competence Two letters have already gone essentially complaining - batted off and 'amusingly' one put the blame on us. There are five on our side, all speaking to each other, and ideally would work as a single point of contact.  But he has said that this is not allowed - we've all given approval to act on each others behalf. There are five on her late husband's side, who have not engaged with us despite the suggestion to work as a team, There is one other, who get's the lion's share, the typicical 'friend', but we are long since challenging the will. I would like to put another complaint together that he has not used modern collective communication (I expect that he is incapable) which had seriously delayed the execution of the will.   I know many in their 80s very adept with smart phones so that is not an ageist comment. The house has deteriorated very badly, with cold, damp and a serious leak.  PM me if you want to see the dreadful condition that it is now in. I would also question why if the five of us are happy to work together why all of us need to confirm in writing.             The house was lived in until Feb 23, and has been allowed to get like this.
    • Isn’t a five yearly electricity safety certificate one of the things the landlord must give for a legal tenancy?
    • Very sorry to hear this, but surely the landlord is responsible for fixing the electrics?  Surely they must be insured for things like this? I hope you get it all sorted out quickly.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...