Jump to content

Recommended Posts

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Pro-Palestine-Anti-State-Of-Israel has been a

> leftie 'given' for as many years as I can

> remember, but let's be honest, Ken's lost the plot

> on this one.

>

> There might have been some kind of point in there

> (more of a historical footnote than a point I

> suppose) - but the attempt at making it and, worse

> still, trying to turn it into anything of value or

> worth that somehow means something in the current

> debate defies belief.


This ^

I think disproportionate criticism of Israel can be a signifier of anti-Semitism. This is well recognised. We hold Israel to higher standards than other nations in the Middle East because it is a liberal democracy and it claims proudly to be one. But at times, this does become disproportionate and the language and tropes used are certainly anti-Semitic.
The question is often asked as to why people focus their criticism disproportionately on Israel, as opposed to say Iran. The answer is exactly as Taper says, that we hold Israel to higher standards, they are supported by Western governments and that it may be possible for Western governments and politicians to influence Israeli policy (as an ally of ours). So yes, it's unbalanced, but I don't think that in itself signifies antisemitism.
Is Israel criticised more than Iran? Until the recent rapprochement, Iran was deemed a part of the "Axis of Evil", and deeply criticised both officially and in the press. Even now I don't think you'll find any serious public political person who'll claim Iran is a freer or in any way better state than Israel. On the other hand, Iran is brought into the argument often when Israel is criticised. "You built a massive wall to keep one part of your population from reaching another part of your territory". "Are you saying Iran is any better?".

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is another good summary imo:

> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labo

> ur-antisemitism-row-ken-livingstone-naz-shah-jerem

> y-corbyn-a7006176.html

>

> I think Ken should be kicked out of the party

> personally. He's too divisive a figure and his

> bringing Hitler into a rebuttal against

> allegations of antisemitism, is pretty bizarre and

> unhelpful.

>

> That said, there is a lot of mischief making on

> the part of Guido et al. and I don't buy the

> accusation that there is some bigger problem with

> the Labour Party being antisemitic generally.


I think the fact that many in the PLP have spoken out so ferociously against this demonstrates this, generally - in contrast to you know who and his mate - but the general Labour party is not the problem here. The problem is with the extreme bits of it who bizzarley hold the reins of power. Who bought Ken back into the fold? Who describes Galloway as a friend? Who appointed Milne?


Of course Guido etc will make mischief - as bloggers on the left do - they don't have to dig very far to find this sort of stuff though and long mat they contine exposing it in my opinion.


Predictably, they the mainstream Labour people, are getting slagged off by the normal Corbynistas on social media with Blairites/red Tories etc etc for standing up against prejudice, even Owen Jones got the treatment yesterday FFS!

More horseshit, I'm afraid. Like the way everybody who does not support J Corbyn is described as 'right wing'.


The only allegation of any substance is this:


"There is a large crossover between right-wing, anti-Corbyn Labour and the pro-Israel lobby within the party"


but there's no real evidence to support it.


Because it's horseshit.

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This makes for an interesting read.

>

> How Israel lobby manufactured UK Labour Party?s anti-Semitism crisis.


That's serious tinfoil hat stuff. Especially the bit about the "right wing" of the Labour party.


I'm a bit torn on this one. Not sure what Livingstone said was directly anti-Semitic, but he was in the midst of defending someone who had been making anti-Semitic comments. And Ken has previous form of dabbling in a bit of anti-Semitism himself.


But I think the decision to suspend him was a furious piece of kneejerk attempted damage control by Labour. I suspect Ken will be back soon.

miga Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's certainly taken attention off the Tory Brexit

> split. Live blogging the Labour "anti-Semitism"

> crisis. Wonder what this will do for Sadiq Khan's

> chances.


Here we are:


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-try-to-link-sadiq-khan-to-antisemitism-row-despite-condemnation-a7006261.html


"Have you stopped beating your wife?".

Anti this anti that. When will we realise what we have in common as humans is greater and more important than our differences. It's like one is right and one is wrong, so pick a side. I do it too. I think the Israeli occupation of Palestine is obnoxious. But am I right or wrong? I don't know. Am I anti Semitic? Fuck no. You believe in a religion is your right however stupid it might be. I'm presumably anti Christian too...?

I have a signed hardback copy of 'If Voting Changed Anything, They'd Abolish it. ' by Ken Livingstone

Published September 7th 1987


I met him at a book signing in Holborn WHS.

Having been a supporter of livingstone at that that time, I cannot say that meeting the man was that remarkable..


Can't say I have much if not any respect for the man these days... I think he is an idiot.

Not as clever as I once thought he was.


DulwichFox

  • 11 months later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Callout for help from any local experts here. Looking to find out more about the history of the property on the corner of Whateley Road and Ulverscroft road (with the green glazed bricks). Now a residential property, i'm told it was a bottle shop in days gone (the house was built around 1900) by and i'd like to learn more about the history of the business that was once here - name, photos, anything at all really! Seems to be very little from open source research so i'm hoping anyone with history in the area can provide any insight!  Starting here before i contact Southwark Archives or similar orgs to get any information and pictures (any advice here also would be welcome). Thank you
    • Portable ramps are available for businesses to use in this sort of situation, aren't they? I don't know whether one would be suitable for use here, or whether they have the space to store one. Lots of people have  permanent or temporary disabilities which mean they have to use crutches or a wheelchair.
    • I can’t remember where I read that figure but this article in the Grauniad from 2023 discusses Ocado results from 2022. The average shopping cart fell to £118 from £129 the previous year. But Ocado lost £500m that year on approximately 20 million orders (circa 400k orders per week). So, averaging out to £25 lost per order. Ocado pauses building new warehouses as annual losses balloon to £500m | Ocado | The Guardian  Obviously, the £500m loss includes various factors. But Ocado has existed for 25 years and only made a small profit in a couple of those years. The rest have been huge losses. Yet it continues to raise funds and speculation sends the share price up and down. In that respect,  it’s like the UK version of Tesla. Meanwhile, the main growth in the supermarket sector has been for Aldi and Lidl, who do not deliver.
    • download-file.mp4  Is this the sort of thing you are after?   
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...