Offering on a house that needs work - cost fears

[poppet27]

Hi, we're looking at offering on a small, 3 bed terrace house in East London (sorry ED). It needs work, not because it's a wreck, it's just very 1990s sterile and unloved. We have no idea how much it might be, and pretty nervous about making an offer if we simply then can't afford to do the work we'd like to.

For Part 1 it 'needs'

* wall removing between kitchen and dining area (stud). It's the original back kitchen, just was divded

* replacement of small back window in kitchen for glass doors, e.g bi fold or French

* new kitchen with appliances at approx 4.5 x 2.5m

* new engineered wood flooring throughout ground floor, 55 sq m

* entire garden is paved, needs removing and lawn laying, 11m x 5m

* spine wall removing between front room and traditional dining room (load bearing)

After that, it probably needs new double glazing throughout (wood to front, uPVC to rear but not casement windows), a new front door and 2 internal doors. But this is Part 2

Phew. Ok, hit me. How much would we need? If too pricey, we simply can't offer and that's ok.

Many thanks

[fizzmoll]

Can you bring a builder you trust to the property and ask them to help you with an estimate?

[steveo]

Jobs you can do yourself:

Take down the stud wall

Get a kitchen from MFI

Garden

[rendelharris]

Both replies above are sound, do as much yourself as possible and get a builder to give you a free estimate. But if it's any help, at a rough estimate:

Remove stud wall and making good ?200

French windows ?2500

Fitted kitchen and appliances ?5000-?10,000

Flooring ?2000

Lawn ?400

Removing spine wall and installing supporting beam ?2500

So somewhere between ?10-15K assuming there are no structural issues which would require more work to install the French windows or remove the wall. A bit of DIY, such as installing your own kitchen units and laying your own lawn, could knock a grand or so off that. Good luck!

[Huggers]

If it's a really good buy and habitable take your time and do it room by room. We didn't make our kitchen / scullery into one huge room for ten years but we made it superficially lovely and functional till then, and brought up our small children in it..

[cantthinkofaname]

-

Just offer less on house?

[goldilocks]

Also - whilst I'm sure its possible to do the house for the quotes noted above - you really need to be realistic about the type of finish you're going to want - eg ?2000 is possible for flooring - but lots of engineered flooring is over ?60 pqm (incidentally if you don't have underfloor heating you may not need engineered boards). Kitchens are also a huge potential spend - 5-10k would be more at the howdens / Ikea end of the market so depends if that's what you would chose? French doors quote is reasonable - but would be more than double if you wanted a wall of bifolds

[Penguin68]

With the French Doors or patio doors thing, you will almost certainly have to put in steels (rolled steel joists - RSJs) for structural integrity. This is non-trivial. While the work is being done your house will be (relatively) open to the elements and insecure.

[sedm]

None of those jobs seem urgent/necessary as opposed to stuff you would like to do, so you could take your time/save up if necessary and stagger the work. If you like the house, can afford it and it's in a good location I would go for it.

[poppet27]

Thanks everyone.

Yes they are superficial as the property is structurally ok but would still like to do the works.

Maybe we will take a builder round. I think I also need to bear in mind that a full set of windows will also cost a pretty penny.

[Huggers]

Sash windows can often be restored. We had all ours restored and replaced by Sundial recommended on hear, again about12 years in.

[rendelharris]

goldilocks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Also - whilst I'm sure its possible to do the

> house for the quotes noted above - you really need

> to be realistic about the type of finish you're

> going to want - eg ?2000 is possible for flooring

> - but lots of engineered flooring is over ?60 pqm

> (incidentally if you don't have underfloor heating

> you may not need engineered boards). Kitchens are

> also a huge potential spend - 5-10k would be more

> at the howdens / Ikea end of the market so depends

> if that's what you would chose? French doors

> quote is reasonable - but would be more than

> double if you wanted a wall of bifolds

Yes of course, refitting costs are very much how long is a piece of string and one could easily spend ?50K on a kitchen, but as Poppet27 is clearly on a tightish budget (otherwise the question would be redundant) I quoted the lowest price possible for what most people would regard as a decent finish. Nothing wrong with an IKEA kitchen!

Poppet27 - one thing you might want to look at kitchen wise is eBay - you see quite a lot of whole kitchens including appliances on there, sometimes just a year or two old, and they go really cheap - ?500 for a whole kitchen sometimes. It happens when people move into a newly decorated house and don't like the kitchen for whatever reason - get a couple of strong mates, hire a van to collect and you can save a fortune.

[poppet27]

Thanks rendell I just looked and you're not wrong!

We might have ?19k leftover which I know is not to be sniffed at, but not sure how much of the two lists of jobs it would cover. Absolutely don't need to fetishise over high spec kitchens and Fired Earth tilings (hey it's Leyton, not Northcote road). A Howdens would do.

Thanks

[Jeremy]

For ?2000, you could probably do the ground floor (600sqft?) in laminate flooring. But for nicer engineered wood flooring you'll probably spend ?5K-?6K inc installation.

It's possible to buy a cheap mid-sized kitchen (units, appliances, worktops) for around 3K. If you're reasonably competent DIY-wise, you can assemble and install the units, and use tradesmen for plumbing and maybe cutting the worktop. Tiling is a fairly easy DIY job (and dare I say, a satisfying one). HOWEVER - IMO fitting a cheap kitchen will be a false economy in the long run, and you will probably regret it.

For your doors at the back - if you can keep it the same width as the existing window and keep the lintel in place, you will save money. Otherwise you will need a larger lintel (or if you're going for a very large bi-fold door, maybe some steelwork) and it will get expensive. No reason why you shouldn't get a builder to take a look before you offer.

Personally I would prioritise the first three items on your list. Get yourself the kitchen that you really want, then do other bits when you have the money.

[rendelharris]

"For ?2000, you could probably do the ground floor (600sqft?) in laminate flooring. But for nicer engineered wood flooring you'll probably spend ?5K-?6K inc installation."

If you shop around online it's perfectly possible to buy very decent engineered wood flooring for around ?30 per square metre, so about ?1650 for this job. A skilled fitter at ?200 a day shouldn't take more than two days to lay a small ground floor.

"For your doors at the back - if you can keep it the same width as the existing window and keep the lintel in place, you will save money. Otherwise you will need a larger lintel (or if you're going for a very large bi-fold door, maybe some steelwork) and it will get expensive."

As the OP says, it's a small kitchen window, so will obviously need a larger lintel for French doors. The previous owners of our flat had exactly this job done last year for ?2500.

"IMO fitting a cheap kitchen will be a false economy in the long run, and you will probably regret it."

The way some people are talking on here one would think budget kitchens were all 1970s peeling chipboard jobs. There are extremely good kitchens available without spending ?20,000 - IKEA kitchens, for example, are practical, attractive, easy to fit and come with a free 25 year guarantee. It would be lovely if we could all afford top end fixtures and fittings, but as the OP made it quite clear that they are on a budget there's not much point in telling them that if they spent more than this budget they could get XYZ.

[Jeremy]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you shop around online it's perfectly possible

> to buy very decent engineered wood flooring for

> around ?30 per square metre, so about ?1650 for

> this job. A skilled fitter at ?200 a day shouldn't

> take more than two days to lay a small ground floor.

Happy to take your word for the ?30 per sqm flooring. But if we're talking hallway, double reception and kitchen. With hardboard underlay. Then any necessary under-cutting/beading. If you find a guy who can do this in two days, please pass on his details!

> It would be lovely if we could all

> afford top end fixtures and fittings, but as the

> OP made it quite clear that they are on a budget

> there's not much point in telling them that if

> they spent more than this budget they could get XYZ.

Not suggesting anyone goes top-end. I'm sure Ikea units are fine... but for instance, I'd rather have a stone worktop, nice fittings, etc even if it means postponing some other work. If the OP doesn't agree, then of course I have no problem with that.. just personal preference...

[alice]

Consider stripping floors on ground floor and money saved for the bi/trifold of choice. Kitchen in houses around the 900k mark are often ikea and easy to upgrade worktop etc later - your house should be 60k cheaper than similar - if it is go for it.

[rendelharris]

"But if we're talking hallway, double reception and kitchen. With hardboard underlay. Then any necessary under-cutting/beading. If you find a guy who can do this in two days, please pass on his details!"

If you look around, most firms quote as a rule of thumb an experienced professional fitter being able to lay 40-50m2 of engineered wood flooring per day; as the OP has 55m2 to cover two days is perfectly feasible.

Ikea do stone worktops, by the way.

[Jeremy]

LL carpets - was 1.5 days to do a hallway in oak plank flooring. Including hardboard underlay, under-cutting around the doorways and bottom stair, beading around skirting, and fitted door mat. Maybe square rooms in modern houses would be quicker?

[rendelharris]

You mean solid oak planks? Of course they would take way longer to install - engineered wood flooring is a different thing entirely and far easier to work with, you can cut detailing on engineered wood flooring with a jigsaw, solid planks you need a table saw and considerably more skill/experience.

[poppet27]

Guys, I just found it at 8pm we didn't get it. So never mind!

But thank you, now I know for future.

And hooray, I don't have to move to East London anymore.

[rendelharris]

poppet27 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Guys, I just found it at 8pm we didn't get it. So

> never mind!

> But thank you, now I know for future.

> And hooray, I don't have to move to East London

> anymore.

All for the best, funny buggers they be out there! Good luck for the future - we moved in January, having had two other places fall through, one through a bad survey and one through a broken chain, and the place we've ended up in is far better than the other two, our dream flat in fact, so these things have a way of working themselves out.

All the best,

Rendel

[Jeremy]

Sorry you didn't get the house!

[Mick Mac]

Possibly a good thing - even cosmetic updating can get very expensive. We spent about 70k over 2 years once without actually doing any building work.

I personally think houses that are good spec are better value, assuming it's to your taste. I don't think wildly outdated houses are sufficiently discounted.

Although if you want a house and it needs to be a certain size, and the perfect one is out of budget, buy it and take your time updating as the money becomes available.

[poppet27]

Thanks. Oddly I am somewhat relieved.

Now if someone in an SE postcode would sell me their house..we have offered on 5 and lost to 5.

Genuinely, don't know why there is a lack of stock in this area. Are people not putting their houses up because they can't afford to move themselves? Or is the darned EU referendum as the agents keep using as their excuse?

Hopeful that the market will correct itself soon, and I can start thinking about floor tiles again :)