East Dulwich Grove crossing - dangerous drivers!

[Abe_froeman]

Presumably it's the buses travelling down EDG that TFL are concerned about.

[d.b]

Elphinstone's Army Wrote:

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> No right turn from Lordship Lane? cars executing

> this manoeuvre delay traffic anyway.

> The volume of traffic on Lordship Lane would then

> free flow, and pedestrians could

> cross in safety, particularly buggy pushers, who

> are slower.

But how else would cars get from Goose Green / Dog Kennel Hill onto ED Grove to head on to Dulwich Village/Herne Hill etc? I'm sure you've noticed the comments on here about restricting Melbourne Grove which is the alternative route between them.

[Elphinstone's Army]

yes d.b. you are quite right, which is what makes it a busy junction.

[worldwiser]

Abe, perhaps. But my point is that if people are crossing there anyway it's surely better to let them do it safely and predictably rather than in the haphazard, dangerous manner they have to at the moment. What difference would that appreciably make to traffic flow? And even if there were a reduction, isn't safety more important?

[James Barber]

We clearly need to do something - it is our most significant crash hot spot locally.

Of course the capacity could be reduced. But TfL wouldn't agree to this. TfL would require overall the same capacity remain. That would require removing lots of car parking and change the atmosphere of our high street.

So we do need to find a way to make this safer without wrecking Lordship Lane.

Approaching council officers they're clear many other places across the whole borough have much higher crash rates and funding is being spent on those - makes sense. That it would be many years before borough funding will reach this junction. So we can't get significant funding.

So to fund some smaller scale initial changes, that officers met me onsite and discussed what they thought would help make this junction safer, I applied for a Cleaner, Greener, Safer funding which so far hasn't been agreed with one of the East Dulwich councillors.

[worldwiser]

I ask again, what is the argument against a zebra crossing on EDG? There would be no change to parking with such a measure.

[Abe_froeman]

Isn't capacity a bit of a red herring? The new Townley Road / East Dulwich Grove junction got approval and that not only reduces capacity by virtue of the diagonal pedestrian crossing, but will soon also have priority traffic lights for cyclists.

[rendelharris]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

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> Isn't capacity a bit of a red herring? The new

> Townley Road / East Dulwich Grove junction got

> approval and that not only reduces capacity by

> virtue of the diagonal pedestrian crossing, but

> will soon also have priority traffic lights for

> cyclists.

It already does have priority lights for cyclists, but as they only release us five seconds earlier, so we can get across the junction before those turning right or left go, they don't have any major effect on traffic flow. They're very helpful for us though!

[Abe_froeman]

Five seconds is five seconds longer for the buses to wait! Didn't TFL even pay for that junciton?

[rendelharris]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

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> Five seconds is five seconds longer for the buses

> to wait! Didn't TFL even pay for that junciton?

I don't know who paid for it, I would guess Southwark but TfL may have contributed to the cycling infrastructure. As for delaying buses, how do you know (I don't) whether the five seconds has been taken from the north/south traffic or the east/west? If the latter the buses have no longer wait than they did before. If the former, at a guess I'd say the 37 passes through around 25 sets of traffic lights on its way from Putney to Townley Road, so what with those, badly parked cars, dilatory passengers, traffic jams and all the other shocks a bus is heir to, I doubt those five seconds make the slightest difference to journey times.

It's a vast improvement in my opinion, and not only for cyclists but pedestrians as well. As the Dulwich society says, "...there is no dispute amongst users, and nearby residents, that the changes have improved the pedestrian experience at the junction and that it is easier, and safer, for school children to cross using the diagonal crossings."

[Abe_froeman]

Surely those are all good arguments for improving the junction at lordship lane too then?

[rendelharris]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

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> Surely those are all good arguments for improving

> the junction at lordship lane too then?

I virtually never use that junction, preferring to stay off LL as much as possible - but I'm all for anything which makes things better for cyclists and pedestrians.

[Sally Eva]

When impeded some traffic does go elsewhere but some traffic (ie some journeys)simply disappear. This is known as traffic evaporation and is easier to see in practice by considering new roads such as the M25.

This increase in capacity made possible lots of new journeys. People could now make those new journeys and they made them. The result was more traffic than expected and a road which was congested from the moment it opened. Capacity creates traffic.

The same thing happens in reverse (less pleasantly and more obviously) -- if a junction is made slower some people will wait in the queue, some people will drive around trying to find another way through -- and others will not make that journey by car.

[Abe_froeman]

That's the same logic that was applied to justify the argument in favour of putting a barrier up in Melbourne Grove!

[Sally Eva]

http://www.onestreet.org/resources-for-increasing-bicycling/115-traffic-evaporation

[BrandNewGuy]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Abe_froeman Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Five seconds is five seconds longer for the

> buses

> > to wait! Didn't TFL even pay for that junciton?

>

> I don't know who paid for it, I would guess

> Southwark but TfL may have contributed to the

> cycling infrastructure.

The money was from TFL, from a fund partitioned off by Boris for improvements relating specifically to cycling. Southwark didn't spend a penny of their own cash on the junction, but couldn't resist the idea of spending ?200,000 of someone else's money.

[Abe_froeman]

Perhaps the council should lobby TFL to improve the lrodship lane / EDG junction to improve the experience for cyclists then!

[freda grehan]

I was knocked down at this particular junction (East Dulwich Grove with Lordship Lane)

It happened on 22 December 2014. It was a hit and run driver who was speeding and cut the corner, knocking me up in the air. I suffered multiple fractures in my leg and hospitalised for 10 days, missing Christmas with my family. I was in a cast for three months then suffered a blood clot provoked by the accident. Police were absolutely useless. Councillor Barber started up a petition to make this crossing safer but I'm surprised that nothing more was done to help. I managed to get 50 signatures on my own but I will now try to put a link on here to see if we can't raise the amount of signatures needed for the Council to do something and possibly save someone's life. I've seen a few near misses here since my accident and it scares me so much. I have suffered 18 months of pain, anxiety and many hospital appointments - I don't want what happened to me happening to anyone else! I will get on to James Barbour to see if he can help me to put some kind of link on here, before anyone gets killed.

[Pickle]

Please do post the link if you can, it is a very dangerous junction and I would be happy to add my signature. Very sorry to hear of your accident.

[worldwiser]

Me too, without hesitation. Very sory indeed to hear of your experience.

[hpsaucey]

Pickle Wrote:

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> Please do post the link if you can, it is a very

> dangerous junction and I would be happy to add my

> signature. Very sorry to hear of your accident.

Ditto!

Also given the forthcoming school and medical centre along there then this really needs sorting.

[nunhead_man]

This is worth a read ....

https://trafficwmp.wordpress.com/2016/09/09/junction-malfunction-and-a-new-dawn/

[Elphinstone's Army]

hpsaucey Wrote:

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> Pickle Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Please do post the link if you can, it is a

> very

> > dangerous junction and I would be happy to add

> my

> > signature. Very sorry to hear of your

> accident.

>

> Ditto!

> Also given the forthcoming school and medical

> centre along there then this really needs sorting.

You are quite right - also the junction with Melbourne Grove, where there was a bad car crash five years ago and

occupants had to be cut out of the car when a speeding driver along EDG hit another car crossing EDG.

Can the new school be accessed other than from East Dulwich Grove? We need to keep children safe as

a priority I would have thought?

[freda grehan]

Hello

With reference o my last post yesterday (I'm the one who had the accident on East Dulwich Grove 22 Dec 14)

I've managed to get the link but not sure if it will work on here? I have contacted James Barber to help me.

We need 500 signature on this petition, I've managed 55 all on my own. Councillor James Barber was going to send the petition out to his contacts but I don't see any other signatures on the petition apart from those of my own friends and family. I will do my best to try to make this road/junction/turning safer.i only hope we get enough signatures to give the Council or TFL a nudge so they can do something to stop anything else dreadful happening.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/safer-lordship-lane

This is the link, hopefully you can access it. If not I'll see if I can get help to make it work.

Thank you

Freda Grehan.

[freda grehan]

James

What happened to the petition you set up?

Did you send it out to your many contacts? There were no signatures from the SE22 magazine write up.

I tried very hard to get signatures, I managed 55 all on my own but things went very quiet.

I have managed to put the link on here so I'm hoping for a good number of EDF signatures. I will do my utmost to stop anyone else from getting hurt here. 18 months after the accident I am still suffering from what happened to me and my family and I'm not giving up.

If you can help in any way I'd really appreciate it.