EU Petition

[LondonMix]

I know. Some senior Brexitors have already distanced themselves from the idea of reducing immigration (its been less than 72 hours). If they really continue down this bait and switch strategy I worry what it will do to the country. There is now a galvanised hardcore anti-immigration population in the UK. If they believe the Tory party has wilfully deceived them what will that give rise too. Its an incredibly dangerous game...

WorkingMummy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LondonMix Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The reason they want to delay triggering

> Article

> > 50 is because the two year time frame for exit

> put

> > the UK at a negotiating disadvantage. Even

> during

> > the campaign this was openly acknowledged.

> >

> > What Leave hope to achieve is informal

> agreement

> > on trade and other key issues before trigger

> > Article 50. In total they acknowledge it will

> > take at least 4 years to put in place the

> > agreements Britain needs.

> >

> > What the EU wants is for Article 50 to be

> > triggered and to only deal with issues covered

> by

> > article 50: citizens rights etc but NOT trade.

> > They are proposing only negotiating on trade

> after

> > the UK is out of the EU. The EU has come out

> and

> > explicitly stated they don't want the UK to use

> > the rights of their citizens living in Britain

> as

> > a bargaining chip during trade negotiations and

> so

> > they want them to be two completely separate

> > discussion happening in sequence rather than in

> > parallel.

> >

> > Trigger Article 50 basically guarantees than

> the

> > UK will leave the EU without a new trade

> agreement

> > unless all 27 countries grant and extension or

> if

> > the government adopts the Norway model.

>

> Yes but LM what that doesn't factor in (but BJ

> knows and is just sick about), is that my Auntie

> Masie and Uncle Stan did not vote for a Norway

> style settlement. Which means no lower

> immigration, less control over borders, we enter

> Schengen, Calais camps move to Dover, no veto on

> future EU expansion, goodbye Maggie rebate on

> contributions. They really, really wanted

> imaginary out out (so we magically carry on with

> exactly the same economy outside of the EU with no

> immigration) having no idea what real out-out

> meant. They heard Gove say, "Norway rocks and it

> is out!" But that was of course a huge deception

> by Leave and my dear Aunt and Uncle refused to

> listen to my sisters and I when we tried to

> explain this. They couldn't answer any of our

> points to them. They just started to talk about

> the German bombing of Coventary and what chocolate

> bars and bathroom cleaner used to called in 1973.

> I had exactly the same conversations on this forum

> (except people here just kept reverting to Control

> Control while steadfastly refusing to get specific

> about the chocolate bar naming EU changes they

> disliked).

>

> Boris has no mandate to make us Norway. There is

> no mandate for any 1) achievable and 2) desirable

> alternative to our current position.

[Louisa]

We have some breaking news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

The SNP is considering vetoing the entire referendum result.

Louisa.

[TE44]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisa Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > What happens if article 50 is not invoked until

> a Conservative Party leadership contest has been

> > decided? Will this damage our negotiating hand?

> Can the EU force article 50 and the ticking clock

> > upon us without us notifying them?

>

> There is currently no mechanism for the UK to be

> thrown out of Europe. Only the country itself can

> trigger article 50.

>

> There is a reasonable theory that the article 50

> button may never be pressed. I think Gove is the

> biggest danger. I'm not sure Boris really wants

> to press it and Theresa May will hold off for as

> long as she can.

>

> God only knows what is going on in Corbyn's head.

Corbyn made a speech at Pride yesterday but BBC

Have reported hecklers view. Has anyone heard what he had to say,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36628305

[nxjen]

So the petition was set up by a Brexiteer. Seems like a lot of players in this referendum have had their actions backfire on them.

http://news.sky.com/story/1717815/second-referendum-petition-was-set-up-by-outer

[TE44]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/watch-jeremy-corbyns-brexit-speech-8279061

Found it, it was before Pride. Haven't time to listen now.

[New Girl]

And there goes the shadow cabinet.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Benn being sacked doesn't mean the dissolution of the labour party, New Girl

At least we know they still exist - rather than the Chancellor - who may as well have vapourised.

[red devil]

I think NewGirl was referring to the other members of the shadow cabinet who have since resigned after Benn was sacked...

[WorkingMummy]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We have some breaking news.

>

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol

> itics-36633244

>

> The SNP is considering vetoing the entire

> referendum result.

>

> Louisa.

Brava! She is the only sensible candidate PM right now.

I want to see what Buckingham Palace will do. Osborne has vapourised. We effectively have no PM. Almost all government has to be put on hold until this is sorted. Who does Liz treat as "her" PM?

[Jules-and-Boo]

and that's bad?

#edited as out of sync and referring to resignations comment

[red devil]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know. Some senior Brexitors have already

> distanced themselves from the idea of reducing

> immigration (its been less than 72 hours). If

> they really continue down this bait and switch

> strategy I worry what it will do to the country.

> There is now a galvanised hardcore

> anti-immigration population in the UK. If they

> believe the Tory party has wilfully deceived them

> what will that give rise too. Its an incredibly

> dangerous game...

That's the danger of single issue referendums, by their very nature they are too simplistic, narrow minded.

At the last election there was only one clear anti-immigration party (ignoring the likes of the BNP etc), and that was UKIP. They only got around 4m votes. If there was an election tomorrow they wouldn't win it because at elections people take on board the bigger picture. The referendum looked at things in isolation, so is it any wonder we got an isolationist response. I believe the US doesn't have national referendums, I can see why now...

[red devil]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> and that's bad?

Well I wouldn't call it good...

[Louisa]

Utter turmoil within parliamentary Labour Party. Six shadow cabinet members resigned, one sacked and yet there is a petition of more than 100,000 signatures to a petition to keep Corbyn as leader. He will stay, having lost the parliamentary parties trust and the party will fragment. Utter chaos. To top this, we still are waiting to find out who will be PM and when the chancellor is coming out his bunker to provide some answers to all the questions we have. Two political parties in utter chaos.

Louisa.

[LadyNorwood]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407

[Jules-and-Boo]

are you more worried about the shadow cabinet that the one supposedly leading the country? That's distinctly unsettling in itself.

[red devil]

No. It's part of the ongoing manoeuvering by all political parties ahead of an expected general election. So no need to get unsettled, distinctly or otherwise...

[New Girl]

Forgive me that was a flippant remark. Trust me, I'm traumatised, ashamed and genuinely upset by the referendum. What I was trying to get at that, in this time of uncertainty it would have have been 'nice' to have somethings that were constant that wasn't uncertain either. I'm not hysterical that half the shadow cabinet has resigned but I am concerned the country and political parties are now in turmoil after the vote. Yes it probably has to happen, but what's the country left with? We look a right mess. Hope that makes sense.

[jaywalker]

post moved to new constitutional crisis thread.

[Blah Blah]

And here's my regret Louisa. I voted for Corbyn for new leader, but now also hugely regret doing so. The membership are counting chickens if they think Corbyn would be re-elected with anything like the same mandate.

[Loz]

Maybe, BB, but he had such a big mandate he can lose quite a few and still get re-elected.

[Blah Blah]

It would take just a 10% swing up against a single candidate - so not as unlikely as may seem. The key is getting the right other candidate.

[DulwichFox]

ITV News annouces Fraud on this Petition. 77,000 Forged signatures have been removed..

DulwichFox

[DulwichFox]

From Twitter

Petitions Committee @HoCpetitions

We have removed about 77,000 signatures which were added fraudulently. We will continue to monitor for suspicious activity.

2:46 PM - 26 Jun 2016

In isolationist North Korea, one of the least internet-connected countries in the world, 23,778 people had apparently gone online to express their frustration at the UK?s decision to quit the EU.

This Petetion really is meaningless. Anyone can sign it..

Is this the way people want elections to run if they do not get the right result. ?

Foxy

[Loz]

Excellent, so we can have no argument over the remaining 3,425,355 signatures.

[JoeLeg]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> This Petetion really is meaningless. Anyone can

> sign it..

>

> Is this the way people want elections to run if

> they do not get the right result. ?

>

> Foxy

Given that Farage said if the result was 52% for Remain that there would have to be another referendum, would you still hold the same position of that'd been the case?