Please - no more whinging about the referendum result

[*Bob*]

Yep, let's go with histrionic comparison.

Because God knows we need more of those right now.

[Lordship 516]

miga Wrote:

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> I think it was more a simile, or even just a

> histrionic comparison.

Thank you Miga for your accurate grammar .. I accede to the simile but not to the histrionic comparison.

I think most people won't be so pedantic & understand that a lot of the world is not really in awe but

catastrophically aghast.....

[Lordship 516]

Hey..we all ought to be on the same side..Remainers & Leavers ...to get this resolved in the best interests of the future of the Uk & not sparking off each other & trying to gain little brownie points. We are currently in a mess and need a way forward without the histrionics. It needs a consensual, measured consideration...not backing some personality or other to be PM. For my money, I feel Cameron pulled the trigger on his resignation too quickly. He ought to have waited a little so he could have some space to think & consult widely before he threw his hands in the air & opted to go. Not really a great PM. Now we are faced with the prospect of Johnson - not a good prospect for the future.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Yes, please stop winging. It's not like there's some kind of entirely avoidable political, social and economic catastrophe engulfing the country. Bloody moaners.

[Lordship 516]

By all means whinge - we all need to whinge until we can be heard. But we also need to be constructive & productive so we can make a good case to stay.

[*Bob*]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

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> Hey..we all ought to be on the same

> side..Remainers & Leavers ...to get this resolved

If there's one thing this shambolic referendum debacle should have taught everyone, it's that language and presentation have power and consequence. Everyone on both sides has spent the last x weeks throwing verbal petrol over each other (though strangely only imagining their own petrol to be harmless and in the best interest, not like the nasty vile stuff coming the other way.)

I guess this was kind of what I was thinking, not just being a pedant.

[Blah Blah]

It was also about emotion Bob. Both sides played to sense of pride, identity, nation etc etc. When you play to emotions over intellect, you are always going to unleash chaos. Every revolution and civil war is a perfect example of that.

[Louisa]

This is what happens when you allow the right to hijack any campaign which appeals to the heart as well as the head. Hence my utter disdain towards Corbyn for not seizing the ideological moment and appealing to people's brain with some hard facts said from the heart, especially Labour voters. Instead, he half heartedly read from scripts he barely knew, and had little to no belief in any of the messages he was trying to convince people with. The lack of passion allowed the less informed people (including myself) to soak up the heartstrings bollocks dished up in abundance by Farage, Boris & Co.

Louisa.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> By all means whinge - we all need to whinge until

> we can be heard. But we also need to be

> constructive & productive so we can make a good

> case to stay.

We're not staying. There was a vote last Thursday. It'll calm down eventually, but in the interim there will be people whose lives will be turned upside down.

[Lordship 516]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lordship 516 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > By all means whinge - we all need to whinge

> until

> > we can be heard. But we also need to be

> > constructive & productive so we can make a good

> > case to stay.

>

>

> We're not staying. There was a vote last Thursday.

> It'll calm down eventually, but in the interim

> there will be people whose lives will be turned

> upside down.

Says you, rahrahrah. There WAS a vote last Thursday which constituted an advisory based on the information that was available to the electorate at the time. Parliament can decide to reject it in the best interests of the country. There is a lot of water to go under many bridges so let's see what will transpire. My guess is that collective sense will prevail, the dust will settle, no trigger will actually be pulled or it may be pulled but the EU will facilitate some form of face saving & life will resume more or less as it was post Brexit but with a solution acceptable to both sides in the UK. Then we have to heal the rifts & live on.

[Calsug]

I love the fact that people who are understandably a bit worried about their future are being branded "sore losers" and "whiners" this isn't a 5 a side football match that people are complaining about but the short to medium term health of the country they live in

Let's for a moment ignore the FTSE as yes it was a bit frothy in the run up to the referendum on the back of postive outlook to remain in the EU the more worrying thing thing is that we are now being downgraded by S&P and Moody's with a negative outlook - these guys are not speculators or the "fat cat bankers" they are the gauge for the market

I will whine about the result because we are now entering into an almost certain and yet totally avoidable recession due to a decent percentage of the population having delusions of grandure about the country they live in with a twist of xenophobia chucked in for good measure - I won't tar everyone with that brush but talk to Joe blogs on the street as to why he is happy for him to have "his country back" and that will be the gist of his argument

trillions of dollars have been wiped off the stock market and yes the market may recover but in the time being the decision that was made last week will hurt the people who need support the most, part of those trillions are people's pensions and savings

Okay the bankers may leave and this is "great news" as who needs "those greedy bastards" but what about all the shops, restaurants and services that were supported by them? I assure you companies are looking to leave London mine included and you can say good riddance to us if you like but the snowball effect of companies leaving is significant

[Lordship 516]

Calsug Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I love the fact that people who are understandably

> a bit worried about their future are being branded

> "sore losers" and "whiners" this isn't a 5 a side

> football match that people are complaining about

> but the short to medium term health of the country

> they live in

>

> Let's for a moment ignore the FTSE as yes it was a

> bit frothy in the run up to the referendum on the

> back of postive outlook to remain in the EU the

> more worrying thing thing is that we are now being

> downgraded by S&P and Moody's with a negative

> outlook - these guys are not speculators or the

> "fat cat bankers" they are the gauge for the

> market

>

> I will whine about the result because we are now

> entering into an almost certain and yet totally

> avoidable recession due to a decent percentage of

> the population having delusions of grandure about

> the country they live in with a twist of

> xenophobia chucked in for good measure - I won't

> tar everyone with that brush but talk to Joe blogs

> on the street as to why he is happy for him to

> have "his country back" and that will be the gist

> of his argument

>

> trillions of dollars have been wiped off the

> stock market and yes the market may recover but in

> the time being the decision that was made last

> week will hurt the people who need support the

> most part of those trillions are people's pensions

> and savings

>

> Okay the bankers may leave and this is "great

> news" as who needs "those greedy bastards" but

> what about all the shops, restaurants and services

> that were supported by them? I assure you

> companies are looking to leave London mine

> included and you can say good riddance to us if

> you like but the snowball effect of companies

> leaving is significant

Well said Calsug..thank you ! This is only one case with many more to happen. Entirely avoidable.

[keano77]

S&P and Moodys - oh yes, those bodies who gave Credit Default Swaps triple A ratings before the financial system crashed and the tax payers stepped in to save the world

[Lordship 516]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is what happens when you allow the right to

> hijack any campaign which appeals to the heart as

> well as the head. Hence my utter disdain towards

> Corbyn for not seizing the ideological moment and

> appealing to people's brain with some hard facts

> said from the heart, especially Labour voters.

> Instead, he half heartedly read from scripts he

> barely knew, and had little to no belief in any of

> the messages he was trying to convince people

> with. The lack of passion allowed the less

> informed people (including myself) to soak up the

> heartstrings bollocks dished up in abundance by

> Farage, Boris & Co.

>

> Louisa.

Louisa, are you for turning? Most of your posts were reasonably genuine, if mistaken. I applaud you if you are now convinced you have erred - it is people like you we need to hear more from in the days to come.

[Calsug]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> S&P and Moodys - oh yes, those bodies who gave

> Credit Default Swaps triple A ratings before the

> financial system crashed and the tax payers

> stepped in to save the world

I've said what I have to say, I won't pretend to be an expert but I work in finance and know plenty of extremely smart economists who are very worried - I will listen to them over anyone else for the time being.

[Loz]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is what happens when you allow the right to

> hijack any campaign which appeals to the heart as

> well as the head.

There was a lot of fault on the left as well. Calling anyone who advocated 'leave' as a racist had the usual effect of just galvanising the opposition.

I'll paste a post I made a few weeks ago...

Posted by Loz June 07, 11:12PM

-------------------------------------------------------

I think the most interesting part of the whole referendum is that, even with the mixture of left/right on both sides, traditional traits are showing... that is, the right fib outrageously and the left call anyone that doesn't agree with them names.

[Blah Blah]

Agreed Calsug - spent the evening in the company of someone who writes on finance for Reuters. He was very downcast.

Keano - there is a difference between rating agencies in the US, who are paid by the banks to rate their products, falsely giving triple A credit ratings, and agencies that monitor economies as a whole, to determine their credit worthiness.

[miga]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> miga Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I think it was more a simile, or even just a

> > histrionic comparison.

>

> Thank you Miga for your accurate grammar .. I

> accede to the simile but not to the histrionic

> comparison.

It wasn't really grammar either, maybe "literary terms" is the right category.

If it was grammar I wanted to pick you up on, I'd point out that the ellipsis is usually three dots :-)

[Lordship 516]

miga Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lordship 516 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > miga Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > I think it was more a simile, or even just a

> > > histrionic comparison.

> >

> > Thank you Miga for your accurate grammar .. I

> > accede to the simile but not to the histrionic

> > comparison.

>

> It wasn't really grammar either, maybe "literary

> terms" is the right category.

> If it was grammar I wanted to pick you up on, I'd

> point out that the ellipsis is usually three dots

> :-)

You can always get a job as a proof reader... no problem!

[robbin]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ...The opening figures

> comparisons between a week ago and now are

> irrelevant, what's relevant is that on Friday, the

> day after the vote, the FTSE fell from 6338 to

> 6138. It rallied slightly this morning to be

> higher than it was the previous Monday (but still

> more than 200 points below what it closed at on

> Thursday), which I assume is what you're trying to

> base "it hasn't dropped" on, but as of 15.57 today

> it had fallen again to 5985. You can say it's

> market volatility if you like but claiming it

> hasn't dropped since the result was announced is

> simply not true. ?85 billion has been wiped off

> share values on the London exchange in the last

> two (working) days.

Ok. In the last 2 days about ?80 billion has been added and now the 100 index is almost back to how it was immediately before the vote and substantially higher than it was a week before the vote. Odd that we don't see comments on this forum pointing that out. All this stuff about the crashing market and then silence when it comes back to pretty much where it was - because that doesn't suit the hysteria.

[nxjen]

And sterling?

[robbin]

It's stabilised. But I'm talking about the FTSE index by reference to what people were wailing about. Was my point not a valid one?

[JohnL]

We have to judge on the next 3 months not few days.

There are job losses being announced now - however - judge it in a few months - watch Port Talbot, Nissan etc.

[rendelharris]

robbin Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > ...The opening figures

> > comparisons between a week ago and now are

> > irrelevant, what's relevant is that on Friday,

> the

> > day after the vote, the FTSE fell from 6338 to

> > 6138. It rallied slightly this morning to be

> > higher than it was the previous Monday (but

> still

> > more than 200 points below what it closed at on

> > Thursday), which I assume is what you're trying

> to

> > base "it hasn't dropped" on, but as of 15.57

> today

> > it had fallen again to 5985. You can say it's

> > market volatility if you like but claiming it

> > hasn't dropped since the result was announced

> is

> > simply not true. ?85 billion has been wiped

> off

> > share values on the London exchange in the last

> > two (working) days.

>

> Ok. In the last 2 days about ?80 billion has been

> added and now the 100 index is almost back to how

> it was immediately before the vote and

> substantially higher than it was a week before the

> vote. Odd that we don't see comments on this

> forum pointing that out. All this stuff about the

> crashing market and then silence when it comes

> back to pretty much where it was - because that

> doesn't suit the hysteria.

I never said it was going to keep crashing or otherwise, I simply took issue with your assertion on Monday that the market hadn't dropped since the referendum result was announced, which was demonstrably untrue.

[rendelharris]

Oh and this from the BBC this lunchtime:

Analysts also warned that the rally of the past couple of days might be short-lived.

"Stocks and the pound are continuing to firm but the post-Brexit reality will bite sooner or later," said Joe Rundle, head of trading at ETX Capital.

"What we're seeing in the FTSE is hope in Britain being able to ride it out by remaining part of the single market. This looks like wishful thinking."