Chilcot Report

[Robert Poste's Child]

Due out later today. So, did Tony Blair lie or not? Look forwarding to finding out. It already sounds like it will confirm there was no plan.

[miga]

Is the fact there was no plan news? I highly recommend "Imperial Life in the Emerald City", a terrific book that's a decade old, written by a guy who was the Washington Post Iraqi correspondent in the immediate aftermath of the invasion. It would be the darkest comedy imaginable, were it not a true account, and were it not for the hundreds of thousands of dead.

[Seabag]

It's what Corbyn is hanging on for, so he can 'crucify' Blair (according to the Times)

And while Blair may need dealing with, there's pressing business that this country needs to deal with now. And as leader of the opposition as opposed to Leader of The (conceptual) Labour Party, he needs to get his party on board and focused

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corbyn-digs-in-heels-until-he-can-crucify-blair-q3v7p6qwg

[miga]

One line of thinking is the Blairites wanted to topple Corbyn before the report came out, since the party base would never vote in those who voted for the war and against investigation (e.g. Eagle), once we get the nitty gritty. Fanciful bit of conspiracy? Remains to be seen.

[Jenny1]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ..... while Blair may need dealing with, there's

> pressing business that this country needs to deal

> with now. And as leader of the opposition as

> opposed to Leader of The (conceptual) Labour

> Party, he needs to get his party on board and

> focused

>

> http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corbyn-digs-in-h

> eels-until-he-can-crucify-blair-q3v7p6qwg

I agree. And if he was a man who looked capable of multi-tasking it might be OK. But he doesn't.

[Seabag]

Given the level of desertion and backstabbing in the trenches of frontline politics, I reckon most people are far enough away 'in the mind anyway' of too much sticky-dirt from the past. Sure the sh*t will smell, but not as bad as the air does right now

I'm not dismissing Chilcot (just look at the cost) but I'm also focused on the here and now, and in that NOBODY seems to be in a good place. Hence Corbyn & Co need to stand up and look over the landscape proper, instead of through this distorted periscope they seem fixated on.

HELLO JEREMY, there's a new war going on!

*points to Westminster*

And if I hear the bloody word "mandate" once more from that bunch, or any other, I'll throw the Roberts Radio into the canal

[miga]

I agree that Labour need to pull their socks up - and I happen to think the wisest thing Labour could have done now is the exact opposite of what they're doing - to come up with a *plan* for remaining (or "good as") and definitely not to have a power struggle. Show some unity, put a hand up Corbyn's jumper and make him mouth the right words like a puppet. This would have been good for the country. But I tend to think the Blairites cooked this ridiculous power struggle pre-Chilcot. Even pragmatically, they could have done exactly nothing and still come off better out of this as the Tories wriggled and squirmed post-Brexit.

You're right about the smell of turd in the air.

[Otta]

Regarding the "no plan" issue, I was gobsmacked to hear a woman on the radio this morning that had gone over to Iraq in the aftermath of the war to volunteer. She got to Baghdad and was told they had enough people there, and to keep moving North. She kept going until eventually she reached a place and was told "you're the most senior civilian here, you're now in charge of this province".

John Humphrys (experienced war correspondent) seemed genuinely shocked, saying he'd never heard of the like in his life.

[Otta]

On another note, if Blair was at all worried, do you think he'd have been so visible lately? I've seen more of him in the past month than I had in the last 8 years.

[Seabag]

Weirdly out of some kind of loyalty (to Labour) and as a personal smokescreen, Blair handed Corby a bun, in that he gave him ammo to use against him, but also gain some movement towards an 'in plan' of his own to give Labour a lift, a direction 'an opposition' even

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/14595419.Blair_suggests_Brexit_not_a_done_deal_and_if_will_of_people_changed__it_could_be__quot_revisited_quot_/

But Corbyn's absolute intractable beligerence re Blair, stops him making any move, other than his wish to bury him, that might give Blair the softer glow he thinks he's after post Chilcot.

The country can wait, Jez is after the saw-dust in the Blair doll effigy, that's his fatuous focus right now

Paranoia is beast fed by conversations in the head, of which Corbyn is currently manic with

[TE44]

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14544743.Tony_Blair__pre_empting_Chilcot_report_criticism__with_attack_on_Jeremy_Corbyn/?ref=mr&lp=11

I think we've seen enough puppet shows.

Article above about Blair preparing for this report, I bet he's happy to have Corbyn to point

the finger at, disgusting. No respect for the families of soldiers and innocent people who died.

Still we can always blame Corbyn, after all Blair

played no part in where we are now.

[Otta]

"We are quite clear about our position on Syria and how you achieve peace"

Really?

[Otta]

At a glance summary from BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36721645

[Seabag]

I'm not supporting Blair either btw

But I'm not loosing focus on 'we need to have a plan' here and now. Chilcot is currently (with the greatest respect) a distraction

[Earl Aelfheah]

My guess (we'll soon see), is that Blair believed Saddam posed a general (if not imminent) threat and it was clear to him that Bush was going in regardless. On balance, he took the view that we were better to back the US than stand on the sidelines and that he might be able to get bush to be alittle more consensual - look to obtain a second security council resolution. In the end it all ran away from him and he found it impossible to back out. I think he was pretty cavalier about things and suffered a good deal of self deception / confirmation bias. I don't think he 'lied' as such. Certainly looked for evidence to justify (as much to himself) the road he was already committed to. It's all very sad, but I don't think he's a war criminal.

[Jah Lush]

I'm expecting the report to be a total whitewash. Bush and that simpering psychopathic whore The Bliar should both be locked up for crimes against humanity. War criminals!

[rendelharris]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

I don't think he 'lied' as

> such.

Well, the Manning Memo (written by Blair's chief foreign policy adviser) made it explicitly clear that Blair and Bush had agreed that military action was to go ahead against Iraq regardless of whether WMDs were found; this was before Blair went to the Commons and said that Saddam would be given a final chance to disarm. So that was a lie to begin with. Blair has also said on numerous occasions that military action was only taken as a last resort, which Chilcot specifically refutes. So there's a couple of lies for starters.

[Otta]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not supporting Blair either btw

>

> But I'm not loosing focus on 'we need to have a

> plan' here and now. Chilcot is currently (with the

> greatest respect) a distraction

This^^^

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My guess (we'll soon see), is that Blair believed

> Saddam posed a general (if not imminent) threat

> and it was clear to him that Bush was going in

> regardless. On balance, he took the view that we

> were better to back the US than stand on the

> sidelines and that he might be able to get bush to

> be alittle more consensual - look to obtain a

> second security council resolution. In the end it

> all ran away from him and he found it impossible

> to back out. I think he was pretty cavalier about

> things and suffered a good deal of self deception

> / confirmation bias. I don't think he 'lied' as

> such. Certainly looked for evidence to justify (as

> much to himself) the road he was already committed

> to. It's all very sad, but I don't think he's a

> war criminal.

And this^^^

[Lordship 516]

From the manner in which the great Bliar operated in concert with the US authorities without reference to the legitimate governing structures of the UK government, he has shown himself to be the agent of a foreign power & as such is guilty, not only of war crimes, but also guilty of high treason.

[????]

Interesting to see if the Corbynistas - "What we need to do now is to unite to defeat this Tory govt?" line holds post Chilcott....more fuel on the fire methinks

[Otta]

Is there a PMQs this afternoon?

[????]

Not sure, we don't seem to have a PM or Leader of the Opposition....

[Otta]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Is there a PMQs this afternoon?

Apparently there is.

[Otta]

For anyone with a lot of time on their hands, full report available here

http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/

I'd recommend just searching for "blair" for the good bits. Wonder if Cambell gets a mention.

[Seabag]

And look at The Tories

They're lining up a number of potential leaders, like ants, getting on with what's there

And Labour, fiddling with point scoring and mandates. How really can they put up a credible front for an election

It's painful