Travellers on Peckham Rye? (Lounged)

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

pop9770 Wrote:

> I pm?d them to ask them to leave me alone to stop

> them hounding me on every post and every comment

> there?s no law against that.

No, there is no law against that. But the point is that there is no law against the way the other posters were acting either - and yet you objected to their behaviour. You clearly don't like some things even when they are legal. Neither do the people on this thread who don't like the baker using the term gyppo.

> Shouldn?t they have put his tweet in context and

> taken his position and background into

> consideration?

The people on this thread have taken his comments in context. If he had said "Those gyppos were very friendly. Nice to have them around", one might think it was a very odd thing to say given that most people regard "gyppo" as an offensive term, but the context would be evidence that it wasn't intended rudely. However, instead, he used it with other language that strongly infers he meant it to be insulting.

[edcam]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> edcam Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > pop9770 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > edcam Wrote:

> > >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > > -----

> > > > I've been getting some quite weird and

> > > insulting

> > > > private messages from this pop/fazer person

> > too

> > > > (for daring to have a different opinion to

> > him).

> > >

> > > > A troubled soul, clearly.

> > >

> > >

> > > Yes because like TheArtfulDogger you won't

> > leave

> > > me alone you follow me from thread to thread

> > > trying to goad and wind me up rather than

> stick

> > to

> > > the subject of the thread you make trolling

> > > posts.

> > >

> > > I may be a troubled soul ..

> > >

> > > You are a bully a pest an annoyance and you

> > will

> > > not leave me alone

> > >

> > > GO AWAY !!!!

> > >

> > > Go follow someone else leave me alone !

> >

> >

> > Ironic that you say this when I have repeatedly

> > asked you to stop sending me bizarre private

> > messages. I'm certainly not a bully but if you

> > are going to post such nonsense, I'm not quite

> > sure why you think people won't call you out on

> > it. You seem to provoke the same response from

> > quite a few posters, so perhaps you should have

> a

> > think about that.

> >

> > I find it hard to believe that you don't see

> why

> > using the terms you quote here could be

> > offensive.

> >

> > Regarding that, I can't say I've been in Ayres

> > Bakers more than a couple of times in the last

> 20

> > years but I won't be going there again.

>

>

> What is Ironic is you are incapable of

> understanding two simple words GO AWAY

> You?re someone who just can?t help being a pest

> and you are a bully because you continue to harass

> me and follow me from thread to thread in some

> bizarre game just like a bully!

>

> I sent you one PM asking you to leave me alone and

> you just don?t get it!!!

> GO AWAY leave me alone can?t you see you are

> goading me and winding me up (you know exactly

> what you?re doing it?s a game you?re a troll) and

> at the same time you are spoiling every thread for

> others by continuing to goad me do you really

> expect me to accept that?

> You try to bully me into silence.

>

> I don?t think Ayres bakers will miss your

> business.

> I also don?t think he believes Gypo is any more

> insulting that Frog ..

>

> You weird .. you expect everyone to accept your

> world view and when it is questioned you are

> incapable of looking at the world from someone

> else?s viewpoint.

> I know that from other threads.

>

> All you do is shutdown the conversation ,,, to me

> that is unacceptable in an open forum / society.

>

> You need to see that your view isn?t the only

> view.

>

> I accept your views but disagree they just don?t

> apply to everyone same goes for my views.

>

> But you are blinkered and can only see the world

> through your own eyes and questionable morals ..

So now we can add lying to your list of transgressions. One PM?! Are you having a laugh? As I said before, perhaps you should ask yourself why so many people are having the same reaction to you. You say you accept the views of others but all evidence is contrary to that.

[pop9770]

P.O.U.S.theWonderCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> pop9770 Wrote:

>

> > I pm?d them to ask them to leave me alone to

> stop

> > them hounding me on every post and every

> comment

> > there?s no law against that.

>

> No, there is no law against that. But the point

> is that there is no law against the way the other

> posters were acting either - and yet you objected

> to their behaviour. You clearly don't like some

> things even when they are legal. Neither do the

> people on this thread who don't like the baker

> using the term gyppo.

>

>

> > Shouldn?t they have put his tweet in context

> and

> > taken his position and background into

> > consideration?

>

>

> The people on this thread have taken his comments

> in context. If he had said "Those gyppos were

> very friendly. Nice to have them around", one

> might think it was a very odd thing to say given

> that most people regard "gyppo" as an offensive

> term, but the context would be evidence that it

> wasn't intended rudely. However, instead, he used

> it with other language that strongly infers he

> meant it to be insulting.

Again

I don?t object to them disagreeing with me only their following me from thread to thread and constantly repeating the same nonsense the hounding and goading.

It?s reasonable for me to pm them and ask them to leave me alone.

I am not following them from thread to thread brining up issues in other threads.

They are the trolls and appear obsessed with me or intent on goading me at every opportunity.

Do you really think that?s acceptable and reasonable?

Many on here feel it?s unreasonable to hound the travellers and call them names, but it?s ok to hound me and call me names? Double standards!

On the baker

I don?t think his tweets have been fully taken into context by anyone in this thread.

Let?s clarify them.

His tweet was not related to the travellers discussed in this thread and in no way linked to this forum. It?s a story from Sidcup.

The tweets ?

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A News Shopper article ‏@NewsShopper Oct 18

Travellers have taken over old Klinger factory in #Sidcup - and are 'charging people to dump waste' there

His tweet was

@NewsShopper excellent. Tesco and Ikea wanted it and both turned down. Now literally a dump with gypos

@valetudocage @NewsShopper what's disgusting is the council have refused any planning permission on that site for years and years.

-----------------------------------------------

So he was talking about an article in news shopper Sidcup about an industrial site that had been taken over by travellers who were charging people to dump their waste there breaking the law and causing an environmental issue.

Does anyone think they were law abiding nice travellers just going about their legal business?

He was angry with the council for not allowing planning on the site.

Someone will need to ask him if he knows calling travellers is now racist.

I don't know so would rather not judge his comments which is why I asked the questions around use of the word Gypo and its legality to be clear.

So again taking them in context he is not discussing a group of travellers who run a legal business, they're criminal travellers who are causing an environmental issue on an industrial site in Sidcup

Many on here are fast to judge others without the full facts proper consideration position education clear circumstances full knowledge and understanding of those they are judging.

South Londoners have been calling Gypsies Gypos for centuries and only in the last few years is the name seen as a racist slur, there are now some who believe Gypsy is a racial slur given history soon the term Traveller will become a racial slur to be replaced by Romany or what ever the Travellers and their legal people believe is acceptable. That?s why I wondered if there?s a gov list?

Is the baker as knowledgeable about Traveller terminology as Nick Holder ‏@valetudocage who knows.

As I mentioned before if I had to put money on this I?d say the baker ?Dell Boy? from Nunhead may know the term Pikey is offensive but probably feels Gypo is no worst that Frog unlike Nick and the PC police I don?t want to judge him for the use of one word until I can be sure he knows it?s REALLY bad ie worst than Frog especially as he hasn?t made the comment on this thread on this forum and we can?t ask the questions.

[pop9770]

edcam Wrote:

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> So now we can add lying to your list of

> transgressions. One PM?! Are you having a laugh?

> As I said before, perhaps you should ask yourself

> why so many people are having the same reaction to

> you. You say you accept the views of others but

> all evidence is contrary to that.

Go away you have nothing of any value to add to this thread.

[Penguin68]

Go away you have nothing of any value to add to this thread.

If that were so (I'm not sure it is) that would not put edcam in a minority, as regards posts on this thread. Surely, Admin it is time to close this thread down or Lounge it. It has been off-topic or virtually so for pages.

[edcam]

pop9770 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> edcam Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > So now we can add lying to your list of

> > transgressions. One PM?! Are you having a

> laugh?

> > As I said before, perhaps you should ask

> yourself

> > why so many people are having the same reaction

> to

> > you. You say you accept the views of others

> but

> > all evidence is contrary to that.

>

>

> Go away you have nothing of any value to add to

> this thread.

I'm not sure when you decided that you were the forum police but I'll post as I please thanks very much.

Anyway, I'm not sure what's going on in the head of someone who thinks the term "gypo" is anything but pejorative. It has been for as long as I've known.

[pop9770]

edcam

Finally an on topic post.

I would say that what is pejorative to you isn't to many others they just don't have your level of education.

The Baker and 90%+ of shop keepers who come into actual contact with travellers on a regular basis don't know what the term pejorative means and as I've suggested they possibly don't know the difference between calling someone a Frog or a Gypo.

You have this weird concept that everyone has the same knowledge same morals and same level of annoyance as you do.

In my experience from meeting regular Southwark people living and working in Southwark they really don't understand all the subtleties' of the English language most are not educated past the age of 16.

You live in a very different world a world of theatre plays books you are surrounded by other educated people.

On this forum the majority are an educated elite when compared to the average Southwark inhabitant and shop keeper.

I think it's important to keep a perspective on how others perceive their reality and be conscious that what you know and what you experience is not always the same for others.

You on the other hand appear to believe everyone knows as much or as little as you and amazingly, they experience the world in exactly the same way as you.

Very strange imho

Close down the conversation is always your aim, as long as you've had your narrow minded view shouted out and crushed all other views.

[edcam]

Oh for crying out loud pop or fazer, do stop insulting people who have a different opinion to you, it's incredibly rude and tiresome and it looks very much to me like you're heading for a ban. It's perfectly clear that gypo is a pejorative term, regardless of education or background. You don't need to know what a pejorative term means in order to use one.

[HelBel65]

pop9770 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> edcam

>

> Finally an on topic post.

>

> I would say that what is pejorative to you isn't

> to many others they just don't have your level of

> education.

>

> The Baker and 90%+ of shop keepers who come into

> actual contact with travellers on a regular basis

> don't know what the term pejorative means and as

> I've suggested they possibly don't know the

> difference between calling someone a Frog or a

> Gypo.

>

>

> You have this weird concept that everyone has the

> same knowledge same morals and same level of

> annoyance as you do.

>

>

> In my experience from meeting regular Southwark

> people living and working in Southwark they really

> don't understand all the subtleties' of the

> English language most are not educated past the

> age of 16.

>

> You live in a very different world a world of

> theatre plays books you are surrounded by other

> educated people.

> On this forum the majority are an educated elite

> when compared to the average Southwark inhabitant

> and shop keeper.

>

> I think it's important to keep a perspective on

> how others perceive their reality and be conscious

> that what you know and what you experience is not

> always the same for others.

>

>

> You on the other hand appear to believe everyone

> knows as much or as little as you and amazingly,

> they experience the world in exactly the same way

> as you.

>

> Very strange imho

>

> Close down the conversation is always your aim, as

> long as you've had your narrow minded view shouted

> out and crushed all other views.

I thought there were some thought provoking points in this post.....until the last bit.

[pop9770]

HelBel65 Wrote:

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> I thought there were some thought provoking points

> in this post.....until the last bit.

I know a small error I should have left those rather obvious few lines out.

edcam Wrote:

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> Oh for crying out loud pop or fazer, do stop

> insulting people who have a different opinion to

> you, it's incredibly rude and tiresome and it

> looks very much to me like you're heading for a

> ban. It's perfectly clear that gypo is a

> pejorative term, regardless of education or

> background. You don't need to know what a

> pejorative term means in order to use one.

edcam you are the epitome of what my old American boss would call and educated dumb person who knows a lot but isn't very smart.

I have not insulted anyone I?m the one who?s been insulted.

Please don?t take this as an insult .. It?s an observation.

as your post has beautifully highlight what my old boss meant.

If you re-read my last post you may (I?m not holding my breath) realise I?m not saying they don?t know what a pejorative term is I?m saying they probably don?t know the word pejorative ie if you were to say to the baker ?that Gypo is pejorative? he?d look at you blankly and need to google the meaning.

I used it as an example of the level of education he might have and to emphasise my next point which is they / he probably don?t know that the term Gypo is any more offensive that calling a French person a Frog. Ie they use the term as the only term to describe travellers without having the same understanding as you.

I must agree with my old boss.

Maybe

Read this and my previous post a few more times so you understand because you clearly missed something in your rush to reply or you simply are not smart enough to understand even though you?re a demon with big words.

Be clear you may need to re-read everything I have written several times and put on your smart hat.

As I said an observation not an insult, you?ll no doubt disagree it?s what you always do where I?m concerned, like I said you?re obsessed with me and follow me to every thread. Where are we going next?

[rendelharris]

You've just told edcam s/he's "and [sic] educated dumb person who knows a lot but isn't very smart" and then tell him/her "please don't take this as an insult"? Good luck with that. If you want to insult someone, do so, if you don't, don't - don't try to wrap it up in patronising weasel words, it's beyond transparent.

[pop9770]

A masterful example of stating the obvious.

I'll join you.

1. It's not acceptable to go dragging out a twitter post on a different topic and using it to mark someone out as a racist when you don't know them.

2. It's not acceptable to support anyone who breaks the law even if they are travellers.

3. It's not ok to pester someone who has a different opinion from thread to thread on a forum of twitter. (that's weird)

4. It's not ok to interpret comments any way you wish.

5. It's not ok to gang up on anyone online or off.

As for luck I've not had much where edcam is concerned because he has only one view his own.

And when I disagree he wants to close me down banned or ridiculed with pictures screaming troll.

Not ok.

[rendelharris]

May I then further state the obvious that it wasn't edcam who posted a picture to make fun of you?

3. It's not ok to pester someone who has a different opinion from thread to thread on a forum of twitter. (that's weird)

You, my dear fellow, have not only been ranting at people for quite a while to tell them not to comment on your posts, you have apparently been sending people personal messages telling them not to do so! In what way is that not pestering people with a different opinion? By the way I have far too much time on my hands, sadly, and so look on here a lot - they're not "following you from thread to thread" - they're just some regular posters, generally pretty reasonable people, who disagree with your opinions on a couple of threads. Calm down.

[Mazcurl]

Sorry to butt in on this debate without reading everything.

Does anyone know where they have settled to? Are they still in the area?

[edcam]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> May I then further state the obvious that it

> wasn't edcam who posted a picture to make fun of

> you?

>

> 3. It's not ok to pester someone who has a

> different opinion from thread to thread on a forum

> of twitter. (that's weird)

>

> You, my dear fellow, have not only been ranting at

> people for quite a while to tell them not to

> comment on your posts, you have apparently been

> sending people personal messages telling them not

> to do so! In what way is that not pestering

> people with a different opinion? By the way I

> have far too much time on my hands, sadly, and so

> look on here a lot - they're not "following you

> from thread to thread" - they're just some regular

> posters, generally pretty reasonable people, who

> disagree with your opinions on a couple of

> threads. Calm down.

V sensible post rendleharris. Thanks for the rational assessment and for pointing out the inaccuracies. I really wish pop/fazer no ill at all but he's definitely his own worst enemy.

[Blah Blah]

All of this from a single tweet where the use of language is as clear as day!

[Administrator]

Lounged

[Pierre]

-- moved topic --