Life

[Marmora Man]

The Drawing Room is generally full of political debate, lots of wind and sound that signifies nothing - let's try philosophy.

"It is a small part of life we really live. Indeed, all the rest is not life but merely time" Senecca AD49

The average man will, today, live to 80+ and the average woman to 85+. How many of those years will we really be living life to the full - whether that's in pursuit of a career, of love, of a hobby or something more elusive. What will we do with the rest of the years?

Discuss

[DJKillaQueen]

It's a good question. Guess it depends on health, income, hours you work and whether you actually like your job, friends, family, relationships......

I am doing a very good job of NOT answering the question I think :)

[Jeremy]

You don't have to "live life to the full" every hour of the day to feel fulfilled though, do you?

[SeanMacGabhann]

That?s what I thought initially too Jeremy but I think MM is pointing more towards ?a full life? ? as in well rounded and balanced with active periods and down times but pretty much constantly engaged with the world and enjoying your time on it. Rather than, say, extreme sporting 18 hours a day!

What constitutes the different factors will differ over the 80-odd years I guess? but it is important to not let it drift by

[waynetta]

I think you first have to ask the question, what exactly is living life to the full? This can mean different things to different people. To some people it may well be cramming in as many experiences as possible. To others it may simply be living a life of contemplative tranquility.

[Jah Lush]

"It is a small part of life we really live. Indeed, all the rest is not life but merely time" Senecca AD49

Life is what you make it and I'll just carry on regardless.

[Marmora Man]

I'm not seeking to suggest that everyone should be bungey jumping into their eighties. Sean McG has perhaps read my thinking most closely. But to expand -

Can one retain, and continue to enjoy, the fine feeling(s) that accompany a first love, early professional success, marriage, parenthood, a physical or mental obstacle overcome (mountain climbed, book published, first music gig and so on). Life, when young offers every year new and exciting experiences - inevitably the opportunities to tackle new experiences decline with time.

I don't want to spend my later years looking back at my "life" - I want to continue to be part of, and enjoying, life to the day I die. As a retired military man I do meet people whose "finest hour" was their military life, constantly harking back, everything else they see as second best - I find this sad and disappointing.

So to restate the exam question for further discussion - over the course of an expected long life how should we ensure that it doesn't fall into two parts "Life" and "Existing" - with the latter being the greater period.

[Alec John Moore]

I'm a bit of a relativist so I'd like the terms to be defined in more detail before I could fully address the question. It is also difficult to answer the question from the general average life expectancy statistic and the apparent assumption that lives are lead consistently and more or less uniformly. And, just to contradict myself, by engaging in this forum I am living life more fully if somewhat vicariously.

[mockney piers]

i think i spend a depressingly large chunk of my life asleep. such a waste!!!

[PeckhamRose]

I think it helps to be really really conscious that you are actually living your life now, which sounds a truly daft thing to say, but I mean by that - that you should remember every day that this is (to coin the phrase) not a rehearsal. So whether it is taking pleasure in walking in Peckham Rye Park, or being fortunate enough to be able to have gone on two-month long road trips - I seriously try to be aware of taking pleasure in both equally, as it were, because I am alive and here and the now is all that matters. This means that I am trying to be conscious of living life all the time, and I try not to believe that living life is all about the holidays and the relaxation.

I probably have a skewed attitude towards life and living of it since I suffered a lot of life threatening illness in my childhood and earlier years, and now I work as a Humanist Celebrant so interview families who are facing bereavement, which is a constant reminder to me to live life as well as I can.

"Existing" is doing the washing up or shopping or so on, and that is truly dull, but a car might turn that corner and kill or, or a shopping trolley(!) or a heart attack or something. Without wishing to sound boring and dull, I do take pleasure in meeting new people whilst trying to do something useful in society, whether it be at Hospital Foundation trust meetings or even just meeting some of you down the pub to lend books etc., and it saddens me so when I hear on the news that someone died without the neighbours knowing. Very often that person refused to engage with their neighbours. Some people might just feel better about life if they engaged with others and took more responsibility for things. Sh!t, that turned into something I had not planned.

Now for a drink!

[waynetta]

Do animals 'live' or simply exist? Whenever I watch wildlife documentaries it always appears that the only things they really do is eat, mate and rear their young. Even when young animals play,it appears it is only practice for hunting when they get older.

[DJKillaQueen]

Some mammals are very aware of themselves - which must mean they live. Dolphins for example recognise themselves in a mirror, and like apes and elephants mourn the deaths of each other.

All life depends on eating, mating and staying alive. Humans are no different to other animals in that respect. Just because we fill our heads will all kinds of nonsense and can build and do other things doesn't mean we live any fuller lives than an animal.

After all a dolphin is just as happy swimming all day as we are doing something we find pleasurable all day. It's possibly even valid to argue that because so much of what we humans do is not enjoyable nor has any real purpose, that we in fact are not living life as full as animals are.

[PeckhamRose]

Amen to that DJKQ!

I watched the doc on the seals at Monterey last night, and cried when 'pinkblue' did his number on the mother. And cried when the man then heard baby bashing the crabs on the side of his boat. We humans are soooooooo daft!

Then I did a bit of living life and did the washing up....

[waynetta]

Does an animal therefore have conciousness, memory and self awareness?

[Alec John Moore]

Oooh! That is impossible to say. It seems to me we can only be anthropomorphic in relation to that question. So, we can only understand animals from a human perspective and, in effect, atribute human characteristics to them. I suppose we could accept the straightforward definitions of consciousness and memory and say that animals do have those characteristics but self awareness is another matter. But, then again, maybe not. Help!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Animal lives and consciousness is an interesting topic but I?m not sure it?s relevant to this particular thread ? we ain?t in Kan? the Lounge anymore

As for the OP?s question

?Can one retain, and continue to enjoy, the fine feeling(s) that accompany a first love, early professional success, marriage, parenthood, a physical or mental obstacle overcome (mountain climbed, book published, first music gig and so on).?

I would say almost certainly not in some of those cases and if you had told me that when I was young, and had I believed you, I would be filled with despair.

But as I get older I feel better able to fill my life and time ? if I hit my 70?s and am reasonably mobile and with mental faculties in decent shape I?m pretty confident I?ll be living life as fully as I can.

Albeit it all too aware there won?t be much of it left maybe..

[????]

and taking this away from the philisophical bent back to the practical, I think most of us under 50, if fit, will be in poverty or working. Current annuities are paying about ?6.5K for every ?100K in your pension pot so...Say, by some miracle, you manage to squirrel away ?200k in a pension, you can take a lump sum of ?50k and then have a taxable income of ?18k not much for running a car and going on holiday and the occasional meal.....most people under 50 in the private sector have sod all in a pension in reality, so, crumbly poverty is our lot.....unless you're a banker (or, dare I say a doctor).

[waynetta]

Health is more important then money in terms of living a full life. You cannot possibly do it without the former, though it is possible without the latter.

[Narnia]

I like the question and find PR's opening paragraph hit's the nail on the head. I am acutely aware that the past is gone and well the future doesn't really exist as it hasn't happened. The only thing that does exist is the present. The only common feature to my life in the various stages I have gone through is that the ability to take a breath has always been there. My enjoyment of life seems to be veering towards understanding that that simple function is worth more than I have often thought. In and out it goes. When it stops I'll be gone too.

[DJKillaQueen]

That's beautiful Narnia.

[PeckhamRose]

Narnia that in turn hit the nail oin the head for me, since - for me - breathing in and out has not always been something I could easily do! Recently though I have been better, and now my Mum is nearing the end of her life, I am determined to enjoy mine more if I can. Money DOES play a role, there is no question. Don't need much but do need enough not to worry about the bills and food and so on.

The whole question about animal behaviour is fascinating. Yes, there is evidence animals grieve. But equally I remember some scientist saying that just because an animal makes a noise and action which we interpret as it being in pain/distress, does not necessarily mean it is.

I need to get a life!

[Marmora Man]

As we get older we sometimes begin to doubt our ability to "make a difference" in the world. It is at these times that our hopes are boosted by the remarkable achievements of other "seniors" who have found the courage to take on challenges that would make many of us wither.

Harold Schlumberg is such a person:

QUOTE FROM HAROLD

I've often been asked, 'What do you old folks do now that you're retired?'

Well...I'm fortunate to have a chemical engineering background and one of the things I enjoy most is converting beer, wine and vodka into urine.

I do it every day and I really enjoy it.

Harold should be an inspiration to us all.

[PeckhamRose]

As sixties hippy chick MELANIE wrote and sang so well:

"I really loved Harold"!

[Tarot]

Grow old with me! The best is yet to be.The last of life,for which the first was made:Our times are in His hand Who saith"A whole I planned Youth but half: trust God:see all nor be afraid! Robert Browning (1812_89

[Huguenot]

Like dogs in a wheel, birds in a cage, or squirrels in a chain, ambitious men still climb and climb, with great labor, and incessant anxiety, but never reach the top. (Robert Browning 1812-1889)

It's a criticism Tarot, not a compliment ;-)

Mr. Browning also observed that ignorance is not innocence, it's a sin. You would do well to ponder that before you judge the quality of a man on where he was born.