parking ticket pocket but no ticket inside

[cupcake_girl]

I was moving house on Saturday and when were loading up, the lovely parking people slapped a penalty notice pocket on the other side of the van (sneakily so we didn't see them doing it when we were coming in /out to load up) but the pocket was empty - ie there was no actual penalty notice in there. (We were parked in a lane but slightly over a white line as this was the only place we could park up without obstructing anyone - we couldn't have done the move otherwise).

Anyone got any experience of empty penalty pockets and appealing these? Is this valid ground for appeal?

[PeckhamRose]

How can you appeal what you did not get?

Result!

I once got given a ticket inside an envelope which said on its outside, "This is not a fine, but a warning". But inside was the ticket telling me to pay. So I appealed and they decided it should be cancelled due to a 'technical reason'. Technically, they gave me the wrong envelope ;)

Ask them for a copy of the ticket he gave you. No, wait, they might be able to do that!

[cupcake_girl]

exactly! Knowing how sneaky they are, I called them today to check if they had anything on their system and they gave me a reference number and confirmed there was a fine due (and that whilst they're not required by law to speak to you if you are there they are supposed to draw any violation to your attention, I was told they should speak to you as part of 'customer service'!!)

I've no idea how I prove that there wasn't anything in there but there definitely wasn't! (I'm not disputing the mild parking violation but the lack of an actual fine notice I hope means it was not valid). Hopefully mine will be cancelled for a'technical reason' too.

[dubluke]

to enforce the fine they must have photographic evidence of the parking ticket (the actual ticket not just the sleeve) placed somewhere on your windscreen or vehicle. Ask them to provide this evidence to you, if they cannot then they have no proof there was ever a ticket in there and you shoudl be able to get off it.

[DJKillaQueen]

I'd appeal and hope that common sense prevails. Was the wheel over the white line? If so that's what they'll argue on. The warden would have taken pictures too (they all do now) so it would have been obvious too that you were offloading. Definitely a case of over zealous ticketting imo and slyly dones as well, as had you seen the warden you could have moved the van. I'd definitely appeal.

[DJKillaQueen]

Yep and what dubluke says...and keep us posted.

[cupcake_girl]

Thanks Dubluke and DJKilla Queen.

Yes I was over the white line so technicially a violation. Over zealous is an understatement, and I'm annoyed they snuck the envelope on the far side without speaking to us as it was clear what we were doing.

I will definitely ask them for the photographic evidence of the notice and not just the envelope. I've sent the letter off (their on-line appeals system is down...!) and will let you all know how it goes.

[blackadder]

You probably interrupted a well known desperate parking warden scam to get around observation time issues.

"Every photo is date stamped via the camera so if a PA come across any vehicle offending

they could set the camera 10 minutes or so fast - log the details in of the

vehicle, slap an empty ticket bag on the car and take photo's to look like

it's been ticketed, remove the bag and note the tax details etc before

walking away. The driver returns and assumes he's okay because he was only gone a

few minutes and there's no ticket. About 10 minutes later somewhere out of sight, the PA prints out the ticket

and bins it !!! Because the camera time

is 10 mins fast it coincides with the PDA time and ticket - if the driver

appeals, the photos are there which show the ticket on the car."

Wait for the Notice of Owner and we can take it from here.

The corrupt parking warden may have made a mistake in the issuing of the ticket

[blackadder]

cupcake_girl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks Dubluke and DJKilla Queen.

>

> Yes I was over the white line so technicially a

> violation. Over zealous is an understatement, and

> I'm annoyed they snuck the envelope on the far

> side without speaking to us as it was clear what

> we were doing. >

> I will definitely ask them for the photographic

> evidence of the notice and not just the envelope.

> I've sent the letter off (their on-line appeals

> system is down...!) and will let you all know how

> it goes.

They are private contractors,and their only concern is profit.

You only have to look at this

footage

to realise they are not exactly people friendly.

[blackadder]

dubluke Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> to enforce the fine they must have photographic

> evidence of the parking ticket (the actual ticket

> not just the sleeve) placed somewhere on your

> windscreen or vehicle. Ask them to provide this

> evidence to you, if they cannot then they have no

> proof there was ever a ticket in there and you

> shoudl be able to get off it.

They don't need photographic evidence to enforce a parking a fine.

Their contemporaneous pocketbook notes regarding the issuing of PCNs

is sufficient.It obviously helps upon further appeal.

[woofmarkthedog]

What council was it ?

W**F

[waynetta]

Avoid parking tickets by leaving your windscreen wipers turned on to 'fast wipe' whenever you have parked your car illegally.

[expat]

Perhaps waynetta could post her/Viz top-tips on the appropiate thread for it....

[cupcake_girl]

it was Southwark. They are 'considering' my appeal. we'll see.

[waynetta]

Always put Pay and Display parking tickets upside down and in the centre of your windscreen in the hope that the parking warden will crick his neck trying to read it.

[kford]

And always remember - if it's a private ticket, i.e. one not issued by the police or on behalf of a council, you can ignore it because it's an invoice, not a fine.

[cupcake_girl]

alas, they have rejected my appeal and apparently they don't need photographic evidence of the actual ticket, rather the photo of the van committing the parking violation with the pocket (albeit empty!) is sufficient. the rejection included an explanation to say that i was creating a hazard for pedestrians - if so, surely i should have been issued the "ticket" in person and have been asked to move. i'm not disputing the parking violation, but would rather southwark acknowledge that it was nothing to do with safety / enhancing community life and everything to do with raising a few bob. hats off to the chap in the you-tube clip.

yours sixty quid down

[lorna63]

I think the council are very unfair with tickets, I parked at the Elephant & Castle, just outside the mini cab place near the Bridge. Granted there were double yellow lines, but I went in the road turned around, pulled up by the hoarding, where they are demolishing a block of flats. I was stationary for approx 15 secs, to enable my daughter to climb in. I never left my car or switched the engine off and it was past 8pm at night, and empty. I had to pay the fine as apparently it is a no loading area, and my daughter getting in the car constituted loading !

[blackadder]

cupcake_girl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> alas, they have rejected my appeal and apparently

> they don't need photographic evidence of the

> actual ticket, rather the photo of the van

> committing the parking violation with the pocket

> (albeit empty!) is sufficient. the rejection

> included an explanation to say that i was creating

> a hazard for pedestrians - if so, surely i should

> have been issued the "ticket" in person and have

> been asked to move. i'm not disputing the parking

> violation, but would rather southwark acknowledge

> that it was nothing to do with safety / enhancing

> community life and everything to do with raising a

> few bob. hats off to the chap in the you-tube

> clip.

>

> yours sixty quid down

What was the offence code?

[waynetta]

MOTORISTS. Park for free in any city centre by smashing the windows, pulling out the car stereo and attaching a 'Police Aware' sticker to the front windscreen of your car. Long term parkers may wish to burn their vehicles out for greater effect.

[waynetta]

MOTORISTS When stopped by the police for speeding or driving dangerously, always indignantly point out that they could spend their time arresting 'proper' criminals. I haven't tried it myself, but I'm sure they'd see your point and let you off with a warning.