Is the 484 the worst bus service in London ?

[Bic Basher]

Lee Scoresby Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bic Basher: brilliant news and it explains what's

> happening with the 484. It's corporate sulk - "We

> don't give a @#$%& anymore". That they can GET

> AWAY WITH doing it, now that's a Q. Let's hope

> Abellio make a better job of it. Can anyone tell

> us WHEN this changeover is going to happen ?

Hi Lee,

Abellio London take over the tender for Route 484 on the 19th March 2011.

http://londonbusroutes.net/changes.htm

[skidmarks]

Medley Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ah, gotcha.

>

> So it's like the rail companies in other words.

>

A little different to the train companies as TfL collect the fares directly where train companies collect fares from passengers and keep it. The train companies play around with their passenger numbers to make sure they get maximum subsidy from the government when revenue from fares should be offset from the subsidy.

The way TfL manage the buses as implemented by Ken is much better as they have full control.

[ratty]

Whoa - it was shocking this morning. In the end, after 30 mins of waiting I had to ahcnge my route and was an hour late for work!

[dita-on-tees]

Just to clarify I wasnt criticising the school run - in the end we all have to get somewhere on a morning.

(wanting to spread general goodwill as an antidote to the general levels of cat fighting on the forum of late)

Privatised rail companies. oh dont get me started (seeing any attempt to be a nicer person evaporating) I have just booked a ticket home to see the folks - only by travelling at totally obscure times can you get a ticket which is not utterly eyewatering.

trinity Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> dita-on-tees Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Most of the problems with buses seem to stem

> from

> > the phenomenol level of traffic which London

> roads

> > were not designed to cope with. I used to rely

> on

> > the P4 to get to work - the service in termtime

> > and out of term time was completely different

> as

> > the bus would get stuck in traffic in Dulwich

> > Village from the school runs so you would wait

> for

> > ages and 3 buses would turn up. Outside of

> term

> > time - you could almost set your watch by the

> bus.

>

> It a horrible viscious circle. The P4 is the

> perfect bus to get me and the kids to school but I

> can't use it as its too unreliable at rush hour

> and so I drive, further contributing to the

> congestion.

[EDKiwi]

Lee Scoresby Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> An online real-time schedule (iBus) is to be

> welcomed. Helsinki does it with their trams. But

> why scrap Countdown? Some of us are not online on

> the move. Old people often are not.

>

They're not scrapping countdown, just upgrading it as part of the iBus system. The first step was all of the buses themselves (e.g. GPS tracking, onboard anouncements and signs), the Countdown system is next which is new signs at bus stops plus online and txt alerts.

I'm not sure how much of the Countdown upgrade is going ahead at the moment as Tfl is cutting back their budgets somewhat tho.

[Medley]

Like the rail cos., but not the same as them then. Most of them are massively subsidised, lots with cosy arrangements such as us taxpayers making up 80% plus of any shortfall from the revenue expectations. What they charge passengers is just a part of their income. It's why UK taxpayers spend 2.5 times more IN REAL TERMS (apols for the shouty capitals, Modern Railways figs) on rail than they did under British Rail, despite the railways being 'privatised'.

Anyway, the vicious circle of the South Circular school run - would cycling with them be an option at all? There is a bike path down the pavement, albeit rather an erratic one.

skidmarks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Medley Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Ah, gotcha.

> >

> > So it's like the rail companies in other words.

>

> >

> A little different to the train companies as TfL

> collect the fares directly where train companies

> collect fares from passengers and keep it. The

> train companies play around with their passenger

> numbers to make sure they get maximum subsidy from

> the government when revenue from fares should be

> offset from the subsidy.

>

> The way TfL manage the buses as implemented by Ken

> is much better as they have full control.

[dreamingofsleep]

My husband drives a 484. They're currently operated by London Central in Camberwell but they've lost the contract and it will be transferring over the road to Abellio (who also operate the 40s) next March.

FYI, responding to a previous post, if drivers are off sick they do indeed employ drivers constantly on a 'spare' rota to cover these gaps. If a route seems sporadic it is far more likely to be down to buses breaking down than a driver shortage. As I'm sure you can work out, if the buses are meant to be every 10 minutes and 1 breaks down, you're left not only with a gap of 20 mins to the next bus, but increased passenger numbers causing the bus to be fuller and slower, increasing the waiting time.

When the route changes garage there'll probably be new buses, so potentially fewer break downs, and therefore a better service, but we'll have to wait and see.

As for 'the worst service in London'... I doubt that VERY much!

[trinity]

Medley Wrote:

>

> Anyway, the vicious circle of the South Circular

> school run - would cycling with them be an option

> at all? There is a bike path down the pavement,

> albeit rather an erratic one.

>

I'm currently considering this though my youngest is only 5 and the entire school run for her is about 3 miles. Possible on a tag-a-long but for the portion of the journey on the road (about half), our bike snake of mother with tag-a-long plus 11 year old plus 10 year old makes me feel a bit uneasy.

[Medley]

yes, fair enough. 3 into 5 probably doesn't go on 2 wheels. Or xx plus 11 plus 10 plus 5!

trinity Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Medley Wrote:

>

> >

> > Anyway, the vicious circle of the South

> Circular

> > school run - would cycling with them be an

> option

> > at all? There is a bike path down the pavement,

> > albeit rather an erratic one.

> >

>

> I'm currently considering this though my youngest

> is only 5 and the entire school run for her is

> about 3 miles. Possible on a tag-a-long but for

> the portion of the journey on the road (about

> half), our bike snake of mother with tag-a-long

> plus 11 year old plus 10 year old makes me feel a

> bit uneasy.

[Applespider]

Oh I don't know... I saw a triple tandem this morning going over Vauxhall Bridge - mother with a 6 and 8 year old all pedalling hard. Can you get quadruple ones... although not sure how'd you'd manage bends... How about a route through Dulwich Park? I do see quite a few parents and relatively small kids out on bikes on the school run these days...

[KalamityKel]

Lee Scoresby Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Kamamitykel: You seem to think this is just an

> attack on bus drivers. It isn't, not at all. We

> have all experienced a wide range of drivers, from

> cheerful and helpful to the very opposite. I think

> a reasonable criticism of drivers is that many of

> them fail properly to supervise their vehicles -

> in the matter of prams being all over the place,

> for example. But, I truly appreciate that it is a

> difficult and stressful job, one that is better

> respected in other European countries.

>

You're missing my point. It's not about who has a stressful job (we all do!) If you put yourself as a passenger in any of the situations I mentioned (fulls buses and all that) would you really have spoken up at your frustrations at the time and to a proper effect which isnt a moan? Would you have asked/told people to get off the bus for example?

A lot of the issues you've mentioned are also to do with passenger attitude aswell not just the bus company (note company not driver).

Anyway as mentioned by other users... if it bothers you so much go complain to the appriopriate people. Start a campaigne. Rally real supporters. Do something productive instead of moaning on here eh? :))

Good luck with it all (tu)

[Twirly]

Out of curiousity, how to people feel about buggies on buses at peak times?

The sign clearly says that pushchairs should be folded at busy times, but I was on a rammed 484 this morning, and there were two mothers with buggies, one child each and the children were awake. If the buggies has been folded, there would have been much more room for people to stand comfortably, and you could probably have fitted an extra couple of people on as well.

[peterstorm1985]

Twirly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Out of curiousity, how to people feel about

> buggies on buses at peak times?

>

> The sign clearly says that pushchairs should be

> folded at busy times.....

I'm afraid those signs went up in the days when buggies could be folded down to something not much bigger than an umbrella; these days most buggies are a combination buggie/shopping cart that's too big to fit in the luggage space when it's folded so the mother has to try and hold onto it as well as her child which doesn't work so well.

I must admit though that I did think the mother that took her full sized pram on the bus I was on last week was taking the proverbial (not a 484). Driver didn't bat an eyelid but it made it very difficult for the passengers to get off the bus as she'd almost trapped us on board

[Moos]

I'm all for folding pushchairs, especially when their occupants are awake. Only thing is that fellow passengers will need to be a little tolerant about allowing the mother time to finish folding (as she sees that that bus drawing up is packed), pick up baby and stuff, get on board, dump buggy and stuff on the luggage rack, get to a seat with baby and sit down. Takes 2 or 3 minutes.

[Sue]

Moos Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm all for folding pushchairs, especially when

> their occupants are awake.

xxxxxx

I initially read that as you thought that pushchairs should be folded with the awake occupants still in them :))

[Moos]

Whatever will save the most space!