Is it normal for cleaners to do less work than the hours they're paid for?

[mummynegin]

I've just had my second baby and spent some time in hospital beforehand, which meant that my cleaner ended up cleaning one day with my sister in law in the house (she normally cleans with no-one in), who said that the cleaner did not stay for the full 4 hours I'd paid her for. This led my husband to check our burglar alarm records as the cleaner has her own alarm fob registered to her name and it turns out that she's been doing around 2 hours work each time she's come when I've been paying her for 4 hours at ?10 an hour. I'm really disappointed as I thought she was trustworthy and a good cleaner. We've got a big house and she never cleans the whole house, but I assumed it was because 4 hours a week isn't enough to clean the whole house. I feel like a real idiot now that I know she's been taking me for a ride.

We had the same issue with our previous cleaner not doing the hours we were paying her for, except her standard of cleaning was really low and she was also using our phone (usually for around 30 mins each time she came, calling the same couple of numbers). Is this normal or have I just been really unlucky/too trusting? I've given these cleaners keys to my house and let them come when I've been at work at any time they wanted on a set day of the week. I know cleaning is not an easy job, but only doing 2 hours work for ?40 is surely taking the piss. I don't think the service is worth ?20 an hour and even if I thought it was, I don't like being deceived.

I've decided to sack my cleaner at the end of October, but until then I've had to ask her to do extra hours as I had a csection and need the help. I'm staying at home while she cleans though to make sure she does the hours. When I do find a replacement cleaner I'd like to be able to trust her to not rip me off, as I don't want to be stuck in the house every time the cleaner comes and also when I go back to work after maternity leave there will be no-one to stay at home to "supervise" her anyway. Have others had this issue with cleaners? Both my cleaners have been recommendations from friends/colleagues, which I thought meant they'd be trustworthy, but now I'm thinking maybe I should get agency cleaners going forward. That way I can at least take it up with the agency if they don't do the hours, use my phone etc and hopefully get my money back if I get ripped off again.

[candj]

The short answer is no, your cleaner should work the full 4 hours if that is what you have paid for. If she completes all of the tasks required then there is always other things to be done so a proactive cleaner is also extremely helpful and one that doesn't repeatedly need to ask 'what should I do.' I find that you need to tell new cleaners what you expect to have done during the week and work from there, ie, make a list for her if need be.

We found our cleaner over 6 years ago via a friend and hired her full time to be both cleaner and ad hoc nanny (pay her tax, supported her visa, holiday pay, etc). They can be an invaluable asset to the family and well worth taking the time and finding a good one. Perhaps an agency would be the best route for you since you haven't had the best of luck with friend's referrals.

**Edited to add, in your case your cleaner only works 4 hours a week whereas ours is full time so when she has a doctors appointment or is ill, we do not dock her pay for the hours missed. Sorry totally missed my point of posting a reply the first time!!

Good luck with that and the c-section recovery.

[chuck]

Of course your cleaner should do the full hours you pay for. I have always got my cleaners via Selclene agency in Dulwich (We've been using them for over 8 years). On the whole they have been excellent - our current one is great. If they finish the general cleaning before the alloted time they will take the initiative to do something extra like clean the fridge, kitchen cupboards etc. This is something that Selclene tell them to do. if they dont take the initiative, then you can ask them to do it.

Of course we have had dud cleaners (dont clean properly, dont turn up) but the great thing about going via an agency is that you can trial the cleaner and if you dont like them for whatever reason, they will deal with it. Also if they dont turn up or go on holiday, they will organise a replacement.

[helenat1970]

so sorry about this! Very poor behaviour from your cleaner. There are good ones out there - and my experience is that they come via recommendation. When I had a c section my cleaner came and did a couple of extra hours a week and REFUSED to get paid to help me out (she wanted to thank me for finding her new clients). She's by no means perfect - sometimes she rushes through things, and somehow seems to leave the vacuum cleaner bits lying about the house, but on the whole, she's reliable, entirely trustworthy, will always do whatever tasks I ask her to (and over the years some have been spectacular). I'm only upholding her as an example to say 'keep the faith' and you will find a good person to help you out. I wish I could recommend her - but I think she's now fully booked during the week. Good luck!

[womanofdulwich]

there is a possibility she comes with a friend and so does it in half the time? unlikely you may think but just worth considering.

[Polly D]

Blimey, our cleaner usually does more than required and I'm constantly feeling guilty about it. It's v poss that womanofdulwich is right: can you talk to your cleaner?

[The Nappy Lady]

Back in the days when I had a cleaner (dreamy sigh), I paid her for 3 hours but she only actually did 2 hours, and it always slightly annoyed me. I used to try to leave a list of 'extra' things to be done if there was time.

I think it is really difficult to find someone who cleans well, and to the standard you would do it yourself. In the end, at that time I decided she did a decent job, and given what I was paying her I'd live with it. I suspect it is fairly common practice.

I do envy those of you who have fantastic cleaners who do always go the extra mile.

[Pickle]

Goodness, no way! My cleaner (also through Selclene Dulwich) does her 3.5 hours every week without fail. If she runs out of general cleaning she will clean the fridge, or today she saw a basket of ironing I had sitting in the kitchen and made a start on it for me. She is super honest on her timesheet, will note down if she left 5 minutes early (!) and make the time up the following week.

[ClareC]

My cleaner does more hours rather than less and then does her best to not accept any extra money for the extra time! I've had cleaners in the past that left half hour early ( which did annoy me) but 2 hours!?!?! That is completely taking the piss! Unless of course she does bring a helper. Even then it would be courteous to check with you first. You should speak to her and ask for an explanation.

[candj]

I didn't think of that, if your cleaner has a helper with her then it would be the only reason she would blatantly leave a whole 2 hours earlier. The maths works out, but I presume your sister in law would have mentioned this.

[new mother]

if she is bringing a friend without asking, fire her.

Otherwise talk to her about doing more and make it clear you are shocked to discover these lost hours.

Ask why she didn't do more eg ironing pile if she had done everything she was supposed to.

Make it clear that is the new rule and if she doesn't like it, next!

As a matter of interest, how much do people pay per hour? I pay 8.50 of whch I think 6.50 goes to the cleaner.

[crystal7]

The Nappy Lady Wrote:

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> I do envy those of you who have fantastic cleaners

> who do always go the extra mile.

I just envy those of you with cleaners! Must work on OH...

[mummynegin]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I also initially wondered if she brings a helper, but I think it's unlikely because on the few occasions that someone has been home when she's cleaned she's been alone and also a couple of times she's brought her daughter, but on those occasions she's asked me beforehand. Once I've got through the c-section recovery period I think we will probably confront her about it before we sack her, just in case she has some sort of explanation.

I think next time round I'll go through Selclene Dulwich. It'll be a lot easier dealing with an agency, as I'm dreading having to confront my cleaner about it. I was reluctant to use an agency before as I wanted the cleaner to keep all the money I was paying, but with 2 bad experiences I think an agency cleaner would be better for me next time.

new mother - as I said I pay this cleaner ?10 an hour (all of which she keeps) plus I normally leave a a ?5 tip every other week. I paid my previous cleaner ?9 an hour (all of which she kept).

[Norfolkvillas]

Our cleaner regularly does less hours than I pay her for, and more often than not comes with someone else (without asking). The job is done, and I feel that the total I pay her is very reasonable for cleaning our house and doing our ironing, so I've never once considered it a problem. I do very much see it as a flat fee for a job completed, so the time it takes is immaterial. As our cleaner, who's been with us for some years, also works for at least 10 of my friends, colleagues, family across London, I just can't see her ever abusing our trust...

[suzisoo]

I have been a cleaner on and off for years, I have a job in education but do this for extra pocket money. I usually step in when a regular cleaner is off ill. I am amazed at what some cleaners get away with, i can see that some of the dirt has been untouched for some time and yet the client still pays for them to come weekly. I would always find something else to fill in the time, maybe a few windows or cleaning out a cupboard. I think 3 hours is enough to do a 3 bed house plus extra for ironing. 4 hours should get your whole house cleaned unless you are very very messy. There is no excuse for her to do only 2 hours, there is no way you could do a good job in that time. However i did once finish ten minutes early on a job so i could get to a school concert and was deducted for the 10 minutes! I do think some cleaners take on too many jobs and try to get too many done in one day so they are in a rush to get to the next one and probably don't do as good a job. I think domestic cleaners are very well paid, its cash in hand and i could actually earn more if i did it full time rather than the job i am in now which is paye. Stop letting her rip you off!

[Belle]

mummynegin Wrote:

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>

> new mother - as I said I pay this cleaner ?10 an

> hour (all of which she keeps) plus I normally

> leave a a ?5 tip every other week. I paid my

> previous cleaner ?9 an hour (all of which she

> kept).

Do people tip cleaners? I am constantly confused by tipping etiquette to be honest - is this common practice?? I was thinking a nice present or bonus at Christmas but it hadn't occurred to me to tip throughout the year. Yikes.

Totally agree with you re the pros and cons of agency. We've gone for something which is halfway between the two - I can PM you details if you want.

[Pickle]

I don't tip mine. As she's through an agency I pay her holiday pay every 13 weeks (which is one week's pay) and at Christmas I give her a small bonus.

[mummynegin]

Yes please PM me the details.

To be honest I don't know what the etiquette for tipping is. My cleaner travels in from Essex so I decided to tip her to help with her travel costs.

[craigy]

i had the same cleaner for 7 years until recently when she left me for a closer to home job. I paid her for 3 hours and she would do anything between 2 and 4 hours as I was usually in for some of it and i let her get away with the 2 hours as it felt like it evened itself out with the 4 hour stints she did when i left huge amounts of ironing and i felt reassured to have the same cleaner all the time (private arrangement) but it sound like yours is taking the pi**..

I never tipped her other than a weeks extra money at Xmas but I am not a tipper at the best of times....

[charlottep]

I went for an agency which was recommended on this forum (perfecttouch) after 3 bad experiences with private cleaners, all over timekeeping and attendance. I haven't looked back since. The lady who runs the agency takes client satisfaction very seriously, and often seeks feedback on her team and is responsive to any additional requirements. The other benefit is that when my regular cleaner is away, a stand-in cleaner can be arranged so that there is continuity. All the cleaners I've had from the agency work bloody hard and my regular cleaner is great and arranges her time around my childrens' routines so as not to disrupt sleeps, mealtimes etc. I feel confident that if i were to encounter any problems with any particular cleaner these would be dealt with swiftly, which means that i don't really have to deal with any difficult situations myself - perfect!

[candj]

No I don't tip my cleaner. She gets a bonus at Christmas and 4 weeks holiday pay.

[cate]

I sacked a cleaner after I found out she had been making hour long phone calls to the same number while in my house every day she was there. She used to leave lots of jobs undone that I had asked her to do as well. She didn't use her initiative at all. I also found the cat's (dirty) litter pooper scooper on top of the kitchen counter one day when I came home from work. I 'inherited' her from the people I bought the house from. I assumed she would be reliable etc. as they had used her. I have a real problem with the idea of leaving someone in my house when I am not there because of this. Would only want a cleaner if I could be there to supervise.

[mummynegin]

Reliability is another issue with my cleaner. She often texts me on the day she's meant to come to say that she can't make it and she'll come the next day. It used be be every other week that she did this - I think she had another job every other week on my day, but rather than telling me kept making excuses. She's been better after I got cross with her for not turning up one day without telling me when I had guests coming in the evening and got home from work half an hour before my guests arrived to find the house hadn't been cleaned. She still changes her cleaning day with very little notice about once a month though, which isn't going to work for me now that I'm at home with 2 kids so if I wasn't sacking her anyway for ripping me off that would be another reason to get rid of her.

Also has anyone experienced their cleaner asking them for money upfront? A couple of times I've paid my cleaner one week's pay upfront (ie a week in advance) when she's asked if I would do that as she's been short of money. I haven't minded helping her out in that way, although recently she asked me for 6 weeks pay in advance (i.e. ?240) as she didn't have enough money to pay her rent. I wanted to help her out, but I wasn't prepared to pay her so much in advance, so I paid her just one week's pay in advance.

I think I've just let her take too many liberties. She clearly thinks I'm "rich" and so it's acceptable to rip me off!

[suzisoo]

If you pay upfront then when it comes to doing the job it wont have the same incentive, part of my reason for doing it is that i know i will have cash at the end of the job so it spurs me on if i start to flag. I dont think i'd want to be cleaning if i had no money to look forward to at the end as i had already spent it. Once in an emergency situation is okay but not as a regular thing.

[nymom]

I have to be honest I have never encountered anything like this with my cleaner. She arrives ontime each week, has never canceled although I canceled on her twice last minute, works a full four hours and leaves my house immaculate. I am in and out of the house although sometimes have been away etc. She has her own keys and is extremely trustworthy. I would never pay someone for hours they are not working, and I also do not expect her to do extra hours either. When I was away and just my husband was here she finished early as he hadnt even used some of the rooms and she defrosted my entire freezer and did the interior windows because she had the time - the freezer was in terrible shape! She has asked for two weeks off well in advance to visit her son who is studying in another country. She is so pleasant with my two year old as well. She was recommended to me by my babysitter and I have never looked back. I say all this so you know there are good cleaners out there who take their job seriously, just like any profession.