484 bus - unacceptable lost property handling

[Lee Scoresby]

The 484 bus route serves Grove Vale and ED on its route. I have posted for years about the appalling 'service' failings of successive contractors. EDF participants know just what I'm talking about: other contributors have given countless examples of delay and overcrowding. Drivers (and their wives) have also posted to reveal that daily staff shortages mean drivers are routinely diverted to double-decker bus routes.

Far from dealing with this long-running scandal, London Buses is gradually awarding the contractor Abellio one London bus route after another. So that, for residents of East Dulwich and surrounds, the P13 and 484 are now also in the hands of these cowboys.

Abellio habitually puts the 484 on the Countdown notification system very far in advance of the bus ACTUALLY starting its run at Camberwell. This reached a new peak of absurdity one recent freezing, rainy evening when three 484s - THREE! - were shown as 'due'. This farce played out over 40+ minutes of bus-user misery.

Ever left something on an Abellio bus and tried to reclaim it? Good luck with that! If you manage to navigate the shoddy online presence, the non-answering email and phone number, the loud distorted call-waiting music (a Strauss waltz!), the grumpy unhelpful 'customer service' operative, after all this you will discover that your belongings are way-way down past Croydon in a place called Beddington. And if you don't get there in 48 hours they will be shipped off even further, to TfL's facility up in Paddington, where you will have to pay to get them back.

[binkylilyput]

Yep, the 484 can be grim.....especially at school/ commute time when it is very busy.

More regular/ reliable than the p4 though!

[Lee Scoresby]

The frequency of 484 buses - four an hour - is utterly inadequate. Moreover, daily commuting and school travel times with their increased capacity requirement are utterly predictable. So it isn't "grim" in the sense of something out of human control, like January weather. This cattle-trucking is the result of a set of very deliberate decisions.

"Please move down inside the bus!" Doesn't that begin to haunt your nightmares? It's the sound of the driver doing what he's been instructed in no uncertain terms: 'Scr**w the legal maximum for standing passengers; get those suckers in!' If London Buses stopped chanting lalalala and took its fingers out of its ears, the electronic records of payment certainly make this ongoing daily pattern of abuse entirely clear.

God forbid, but is it going to take a serious accident, with multiple deaths and injuries, before people ask, 'Why WERE there so many people on that bus?' Hilariously, following the iron rule in this country that chums in suits behind desks will never ever carry the rap, the driver would doubtless be blamed.

LS

[Jennys]

Perhaps you could ask the schools whose students use the 484 to lobby for more buses.

[Nigello]

TBF, there is a general reluctance of passengers to "move down inside the bus" or ignore the fact there are "seats available upstairs", so I am glad of the strict voice asking they do so.

Next time you hear it, just look and see that there are the usual sub-morons congregating around the doorway/stairs (are they claustrophobic and/or scared of heights?) who refuse to make room for others.

Overcrowding is not good, but neither is people being ignorant and selfish.

[JohnL]

Nigello Wrote:

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> TBF, there is a general reluctance of passengers

> to "move down inside the bus" or ignore the fact

> there are "seats available upstairs", so I am glad

> of the strict voice asking they do so.

> Next time you hear it, just look and see that

> there are the usual sub-morons congregating around

> the doorway/stairs (are they claustrophobic and/or

> scared of heights?) who refuse to make room for

> others.

> Overcrowding is not good, but neither is people

> being ignorant and selfish.

I realised some time ago that a lot of passengers are

rather scared to go upstairs - not sure why,

[BrandNewGuy]

Oh indeed. Especially when they're guarding the exit door, one either side so that you're expected to squeeze sideways to get off. Actually, if they look able-bodied, they both get the shoulders from me. Harsh but right.

Back to one of Lee's original points ? have you told TfL of Abellio's nefarious false start times on countdown?

[binkylilyput]

There are more than four 484 buses an hour no?! Maybe I have been luckier with the wait times

I have to admit, much as I'd like to see a few more 484 buses in the mix, I can't say they have haunted my nightmares no

I think with double deckers some people opt not to take on the challenge of getting up the stairs while the bus is moving then running the gauntlet at the top, tripping over bags and men's feet/ legs (sorry guys, but you do love to spread you legs wide!)to get to a seat squeezed in the back row.......when getting off in a few stops

Buses can be grim, particularly for those who are less confident

[Nigello]

Less confident? Less confident at what and than whom?

The challenge of getting upstairs? Top deck on the 176 is hardly the summit of K2.

Sheesh and double sheesh!

The gist of your post backs up what I said: people can be selfish and stupid at the same time.

[SoozieW]

binkylilyput Wrote:

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> Yep, the 484 can be grim.....especially at school/

> commute time when it is very busy.

>

> More regular/ reliable than the p4 though!

God yeah. P4 is the absolute pits.

[LouiseC]

Agreed on 484, have been stuck waiting plenty of times for over 20mins in freezing rain for a bus that was supposedly only 3mins away...and ridiculously packed much of the time. P12 is another wholly unreliable route, nothing for 25+ mins then 3 together on a regular basis, I think this is also an Abellio route..

[cactus]

Generally the passengers who crowd around the exit doors, are the ones who are only

going a few stops. They can't be bothered to go upstairs or move down, nor can they be bothered to walk 5 minutes

instead of squeezing themselves onto a packed bus.

[binkylilyput]

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Less confident? Less confident at what and than

> whom?

> The challenge of getting upstairs? Top deck on the

> 176 is hardly the summit of K2.

> Sheesh and double sheesh!

> The gist of your post backs up what I said: people

> can be selfish and stupid at the same time.

It may be very hard to believe Nigello but some people are less confident than others! Perhaps a stretch for you to imagine that some people feel anxious about being boxed in on buses. Some people do worry about climbing the stairs when the bus is moving (not that easy). Many people don't like sitting at the top because of travel nausea. Some people feel too tired to haul their belongings upstairs for the sake of a short journey. Some people don't like trying to rush down the stairs before the doors close to get off. Many people don't feel to safe on the top deck for a range of reasons.

I'm not saying that crowded buses aren't annoying. It would also be nice to have more 484s in operation (although, as stated, in comparison to the p4 the 484 is like some luxury service).

[JohnL]

binkylilyput Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nigello Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Less confident? Less confident at what and than

> > whom?

> > The challenge of getting upstairs? Top deck on

> the

> > 176 is hardly the summit of K2.

> > Sheesh and double sheesh!

> > The gist of your post backs up what I said:

> people

> > can be selfish and stupid at the same time.

>

> It may be very hard to believe Nigello but some

> people are less confident than others! Perhaps a

> stretch for you to imagine that some people feel

> anxious about being boxed in on buses. Some people

> do worry about climbing the stairs when the bus is

> moving (not that easy). Many people don't like

> sitting at the top because of travel nausea. Some

> people feel too tired to haul their belongings

> upstairs for the sake of a short journey. Some

> people don't like trying to rush down the stairs

> before the doors close to get off. Many people

> don't feel to safe on the top deck for a range of

> reasons.

>

> I'm not saying that crowded buses aren't annoying.

> It would also be nice to have more 484s in

> operation (although, as stated, in comparison to

> the p4 the 484 is like some luxury service).

I was boxed in last night - you know when a group of young

boys decide to sit facing each other across the seats in

front of you whilst having a loud chat.

I just smile and have no issue with that (my pet hate is strong

food) - but I could see some people feeling scared.

[cella]

The ones round the doors are often the passengers who haven't tapped their oysters and may need to exit in a hurry if inspectors get on.

[Nigello]

I am sure that *some* people genuinely feel anxious in certain situations on public transport but would argue that most simply CBA to do the best thing for everyone.

I don't like having to go upstairs for a few stops, lurching down the top deck to squeeze into a seat, but because it is *public* transport in a *massive* city I just get on with it, knowing that it's not that really a big deal.

If people aren't moving down/up, just ask them to. It may just work!

As for the 484, it is nearly always busy when I use it and think that more at rush hour would be a good idea.

[Zebedee Tring]

Some people aren't physically capable of going upstairs in a bus, either because they are disabled, suffer from arthritis or are elderly. Nigello, you may be lucky enough not to be in any of these categories but spare a thought for those people who are. And your time will come ....

[Nigello]

ZT - enough of the virtue signalling.

I am well aware of other people's disabilities (including anxiety) as I stated in my post above when I said "*some* people". I stand by my claim that a lot - most - folk simply think of themselves rather than others: it is unbelievable to even consider that most of the ones refusing to go further down and/or upstairs fall into the disabled/semi-lame/anxious categories (as would be denoted by any reasonable person).

(Three serious back injuries with periods of inability to walk followed by restricted and very painful movement means I can say I am aware of *some* people's lack of full mobility. Oh, and I keep an eye out for people who need the seat I am sitting in more than me, so I feel OK with my pulling up others for being selfish.)

To bring it back on topic - the area's bus provision and general transport situation ought to be assessed because right now, it is not working as well as it could be. We can (almost) all help that out by being considerate passengers.

[Zebedee Tring]

Virtue signalling? Is that an example of Californian pyschobabble like "check your privilege"?

For your information I fractured my upper shoulder three months ago and haven't been upstairs in a bus since then. Furthermore I am finding it more difficult to negotiate bus stairs because of worsening arthritis in my left knee. So I'm not "virtue signalling", I'm speaking from personal experience.

[indiepanda]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Some people aren't physically capable of going

> upstairs in a bus, either because they are

> disabled, suffer from arthritis or are elderly.

> Nigello, you may be lucky enough not to be in any

> of these categories but spare a thought for those

> people who are. And your time will come ....

True enough - but these people aren't usually the ones standing up blocking the stairs or doors and not attempting to get out of the way to let other passengers upstairs or exit. When I've been on a busy bus downstairs (which isn't that often as I feel as I am able bodied enough to use the stairs I should do so) there are usually enough considerate passengers that the elderly or young people on crutches etc. get given a seat.

[BrandNewGuy]

The simple fact is, most people I see hanging around the doors have no mobility issues. They're lazy and/or daft.

[Bic Basher]

I was on an older P13 bus on Thursday when the driver parked up at Goose Green to phone the garage to report defects with the internal lights and the passenger bell. This was at 3.10pm and with it being dark an hour later, he wanted to take the bus out of service at Streatham Station. He was told to carry on.

[Nigello]

Sounds like common sense - a rarer thing these days!

TBF, the P13 new buses are better - bigger and with rear exit doors and they do nearly always arrive when the TfL text/online/Countdown service say they will.

Would still like to see (and ride) an extended 63 service to HOP station to be able to use the Overground more easily - the holy grail of bus transport!

[indiepanda]

Nigello Wrote:

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> Would still like to see (and ride) an extended 63

> service to HOP station to be able to use the

> Overground more easily - the holy grail of bus

> transport!

I think the view is that there's nowhere for the 63 to turn round at the end of the route in Honor Oak Park, so whilst I would like this too, I am not holding out any hope of it happening any time soon.

[Henry_17]

Amazing thread.