Students - rioting

[Emerson Crane]

MrBen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > SMG is right, I know it seems like we're taxed

> to

> > the hilt sometimes, but our tax is not really

> high

> > by european standards.

> >

>

> Aye. I'm also with the Gabba on that general view,

> in terms of both personal and business taxation.

> Last year we looked carefully at potentially

> relocating our business elsewhere and, after

> taking a large number of factors into account, the

> only places that ranked higher than the UK were

> New Zealand and Singapore. And they clearly

> wouldnt work for us. People moan about small

> business red tape but the reality is that tax is

> relatively very low, with allowances for

> entrepreneurial relief at 10% on capital gains

> etc. This is a great country to do business.

Why, then, do so many small businesses go under each week if Britain is a great place to do business? Why are there so many shops closed in our high streets with few or no takers? I know many people who have small businesses, and they don't share your view.

[charliecharlie]

peace to you too Keef

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__zM2dq4hAxk/TCEVYayagdI/AAAAAAAAAVA/DjoXvwnGTCs/s320/churchill_v_sign.jpg

oh lordie me... is that imgae maent to be the othre way round... am dyslexic so can't tell..

[SeanMacGabhann]

You mean businesses don't close down in other countries? Man I gotta get me some of that action

Detroit - USA

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/eticket/20090430/photos/etick_bing16_850.jpg

Joburg

http://images.visualeditors.com/apple/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/091018joburgstreetone.jpg

[????]

Businesses closing down and starting up is also often a sign of a business friendly environment. Small businesses fail, it ain't a free ride

[Keef]

Nice CXC, cheers, You've called me dunce, and flipped me the bird.

I am very protective towards students

You clearly are, but how can you be prtective of all students? Surely university students represent a very wide cross section of society, with different ideas, and ideologies. In which case, you must disagree with some of them.

I basically agree with the sentiment behind this march. I disagree with some of them smashing stuff up.

[charliecharlie]

oh yes I forgot t say Keef...

it's pretty hard for me to "chill out" when everything I have worked for over the last 15th years is about to be flushed down the pan thanks to the bankers and a greedy society driven materiel values...

what did we (teaching staff) do wrong???

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/44/111730567_0e49c02f7e.jpg

[Emerson Crane]

???? Wrote:

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> Businesses closing down and starting up is also

> often a sign of a business friendly environment.

> Small businesses fail, it ain't a free ride

We are all aware of that, but thanks to both you and Sean McGabbhan for the patronising responses. Speaking as someone that has had 3 businesses, I am well aware of the pitfalls, but equally I don't kid myself that we live in some kind of entrepreneurial paradise. I'm offering the flip side of your view.

[????]

Why, then, do so many small businesses go under each week if Britain is a great place to do business?

I'm answering that, so if in all honesty you want to opine and don't want your questions answered why put them up eh?

[charliecharlie]

I was going to type "my students" but I thought someone would jump on me for making them sound like a possession.... sorry if a bit tetchy today... just really upset about the whole thing

[OliviaDee]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> >

> But isn't that what "we" do when we elect a

> government - without that premise there is no

> unified "we"

yes, but unfortunately no-one ever seems happy with how any government allocates the budget. i didn't vote for this government but even if i did - allocating taxes this way seems appealingly democratic and gives the individual and the 'we' a much stronger voice. (all this said knowing the idea itself is not sustainable). BUT lets say i thought students were a load of tossers and didn't deserve my tax pound i might soon find myself forced into a higher argument with myself - do i really want to live a society with badly qualified doctors, nurses, teachers etc... and then, as i hear so many people say, also on this thread, i would start to properly understand the value of funding as a society something that at first glance does not seem to pertain directly to me.

i bet under a system like this (makey-up) one, education and health would do better than under any government.

the banks probably wouldn't fare so well though...

* edited because i spelt education wrong.

[Emerson Crane]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why, then, do so many small businesses go under

> each week if Britain is a great place to do

> business?

>

> I'm answering that, so if in all honesty you want

> to opine and don't want your questions answered

> why put them up eh?

That was what you call an answer eh? Well if thats the level of answer I'm going to get, I'm wondering if its worth while. Your answer was flippant at best, and lazy at worst.

[????]

Oh go and get a thicker skin Atila, I mean Emerson. It was an answer, it's a Forum. Haven't seen that much fact in your arguments.

[DaveR]

"it's pretty hard for me to "chill out" when everything I have worked for over the last 15th years is about to be flushed down the pan"

Even after the proposed cuts in funding there will be far more students in HE than there were 15 years ago. Precious little to do with bankers or materialism - just less money coming in in taxes and big debts to pay off, so every area of the public sector takes a hit. Universities are not immune - why should they be?

[Brendan]

Santerme Wrote:

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> That was not the premise of Mr Ben's post....he

> clearly makes the point that good old fashioned

> rioting is stirring.

>

> Surely not?

Fair enough.

Busting up office buildings aside though I do find it heartening that they are taking an active interest and that being involved now is forcing them take notice and think about how things work and what sort of world they want to leave behind. Compared to the apathetic, capitulating, apolitical consumers that I went to university with it is actually quite refreshing.

[Emerson Crane]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh go and get a thicker skin Atila, I mean

> Emerson. It was an answer, it's a Forum. Haven't

> seen that much fact in your arguments.

Who is Atila, please let me know. As for facts, I've not seen many in your own argument. "It's a forum". Talk about state the flipping blatantly obvious. As I said previously, I've had 3 businesses, one of which I sold at a profit one went under as a result of the recession in the early nineties and one is still going but suffering, as I'm sure many are. I've never found the banks, taxation, or for that matter local authorities helpul to my businesses and therefore speak from experience. I'm aware its my choice, but lets have a balance eh?

[SeanMacGabhann]

uh oh - old Atila is back - I'm not engaging with this one

And he'd being do so well too

[Emerson Crane]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> uh oh - old Atila is back - I'm not engaging with

> this one

>

> And he'd being do so well too

Who is this Atila you keep referring to??

[????]

I dunno

Arsenal Fan

Connections with Dulwich Hamlet

Seemed to take it as a personal affront when poeple didn't agree with his opinions

DID used to shout and swear more than you...you been on anger magmt courses?

[david_carnell]

OliviaDee Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> yes, but unfortunately no-one ever seems happy

> with how any government allocates the budget. i

> didn't vote for this government but even if i did

> - allocating taxes this way seems appealingly

> democratic and gives the individual and the 'we' a

> much stronger voice. (all this said knowing the

> idea itself is not sustainable). BUT lets say i

> thought students were a load of tossers and didn't

> deserve my tax pound i might soon find myself

> forced into a higher argument with myself - do i

> really want to live a society with badly qualified

> doctors, nurses, teachers etc... and then, as i

> hear so many people say, also on this thread, i

> would start to properly understand the value of

> funding as a society something that at first

> glance does not seem to pertain directly to me.

>

> i bet under a system like this (makey-up) one,

> education and health would do better than under

> any government.

>

> the banks probably wouldn't fare so well

> though...

>

> * edited because i spelt education wrong.

Olivia - an interesting idea. The trouble is that I barely trust vast swathes of the population to leave the house in the morning with their pants on the right way round.

I have enough trouble allowing these people to vote let alone have direct control of fiscal allocation. All the money would be spent on Facebook causes and the Richard & Judy book club.

[SeanMacGabhann]

oh you know him Emerson

Arsenal fan

runs small businesses

Denies he is Atila repeatedly

The one who posted on teh Nunhead forum, realised there was noone there and so invented a new name (again)

have a look in a mirror

We all know it's you, why don't you?

[OliviaDee]

david_carnell Wrote:

> Olivia - an interesting idea. The trouble is that

> I barely trust vast swathes of the population to

> leave the house in the morning with their pants on

> the right way round.

>

> I have enough trouble allowing these people to

> vote let alone have direct control of fiscal

> allocation. All the money would be spent on

> Facebook causes and the Richard & Judy book club.

i know david - of course this is true. the only problem is that i don't actually trust the government much more.

[Emerson Crane]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I dunno

>

> Arsenal Fan

> Connections with Dulwich Hamlet

> Seemed to take it as a personal affront when

> poeple didn't agree with his opinions

>

> DID used to shout and swear more than you...you

> been on anger magmt courses?

The first two also true of me, but as I'm not this person I can't answer for him. I personally have no problem with differing opinions, but I've simply stated my view which differs from the one put forward by others and asked for balance. I don't think that is an unreasonable request.

[????]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> OliviaDee Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > yes, but unfortunately no-one ever seems happy

> > with how any government allocates the budget. i

> > didn't vote for this government but even if i

> did

> > - allocating taxes this way seems appealingly

> > democratic and gives the individual and the 'we'

> a

> > much stronger voice. (all this said knowing the

> > idea itself is not sustainable). BUT lets say i

> > thought students were a load of tossers and

> didn't

> > deserve my tax pound i might soon find myself

> > forced into a higher argument with myself - do

> i

> > really want to live a society with badly

> qualified

> > doctors, nurses, teachers etc... and then, as i

> > hear so many people say, also on this thread, i

> > would start to properly understand the value of

> > funding as a society something that at first

> > glance does not seem to pertain directly to me.

>

> >

> > i bet under a system like this (makey-up) one,

> > education and health would do better than under

> > any government.

> >

> > the banks probably wouldn't fare so well

> > though...

> >

> > * edited because i spelt education wrong.

>

> Olivia - an interesting idea. The trouble is that

> I barely trust vast swathes of the population to

> leave the house in the morning with their pants on

> the right way round.

>

> I have enough trouble allowing these people to

> vote let alone have direct control of fiscal

> allocation. All the money would be spent on

> Facebook causes and the Richard & Judy book club.

Aggh the voice of a true socialist, knowing what's best for the plebby proles

[david_carnell]

I presume allowing people direct control over what their taxes are spent on is something you're in favour of then, Quids?

[Brendan]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Olivia - an interesting idea. The trouble is that

> I barely trust vast swathes of the population to

> leave the house in the morning with their pants on

> the right way round.

>

> I have enough trouble allowing these people to

> vote let alone have direct control of fiscal

> allocation. All the money would be spent on

> Facebook causes and the Richard & Judy book club.

Is this your formal opinion as a Party member?