Students - rioting

[charliecharlie]

I never suggested we should be immune DaveR... but a 40% cut in teaching funds? ??*@&!*>?

we already do hours and hours and hours of additional unpaid time

40%.... ouch ouch ouch... that is very very harsh

feels like the cuts are being landed on a soft target... the only people who suffer if we strike are the students, so we will not do that.. feels like our hands are tied...

and I have yet so see any clear rationale from government (in fact forget 'clear' just any justification) explaining how the decision has been made...

http://rlv.zcache.com/bound_records_hands_tied_poster-p228277985603209237tdar_210.jpg

[????]

Nope. But I have far less contempt for the denizens of middle england than most of my sophisticated metropolitan mates, and I do believe firmly in Democracy & Universal Suffrage ;-)

[Brendan]

Well I believe firmly that everyone is an arsehole.

Perhaps I should join the Labour Party.

[OliviaDee]

if people were asked to allocate within broad services rather than specifics i'm sure people could allocate wisely and send a resounding message to Westminster without the need to bash in any windows and which would be impossible to ignore.

[????]

Brendan Wrote:

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> Well I believe firmly that everyone is an

> arsehole.

>

> Perhaps I should join the Labour Party.

Move to Surrey and have it confirmed

[Brendan]

I have.

Keep up.

[DaveR]

charliex2, I was just responding to your somewhat hyperbolic post (the one with the toilet pic)

A 40% cut in teaching funds probably = a reduction in the number of degree places to the position of about 10 years ago, although in practice it will be implemented in a number of different ways. It's harsh, but HE is an area that expanded rapidly, and although spending didn't rise as fast as student numbers, it did go up. You can argue for a smaller cut, but where should the axe fall instead? Or you can argue for no cuts (like the student demonstrators) and pretend that it's all the banks fault, and that there's no such thing as a sovereign debt crisis.

[david_carnell]

Brendan Wrote:

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> david_carnell Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Olivia - an interesting idea. The trouble is

> that

> > I barely trust vast swathes of the population to

>

> > leave the house in the morning with their pants

> on

> > the right way round.

> >

> > I have enough trouble allowing these people to

> > vote let alone have direct control of fiscal

> > allocation. All the money would be spent on

> > Facebook causes and the Richard & Judy book

> club.

>

> Is this your formal opinion as a Party member?

No, my informal opinion having a hatred of the "general public". They know nothing. ;-)

[charliecharlie]

as far as I understand we are being asked to offer the same or more places, despite the 40% cut in funding...

hhhhmmpph... not in a good mood about it

http://www.myspacetuning.com/gfx/funny_pics/animals/angry_ostrich.jpg

[charliecharlie]

and no... I am not wasting government money by being on the forum while I'm at work, before anyone asks...

I am a .5 member of staff and never use the forum while I am at work!!!

[Huguenot]

Ref an much earlier comment...

UK is a great place to do business or to own a business?

For employees on a higher tax rate in 2011, they'll be paying 40% income tax, 11% national insurance and 20% VAT on every 'non-vital' purchase. If you own a business you'll be paying yourself in dividends at 18% tax, and minimum NI contributions.

This means for employees in the private sector for every ?1 they generate, they'll be getting 39p back in goods and services. The rest of it isn't just paying teachers, nurses, pensioners and soldiers - it's also paying ingrates, loungers and fraudsters.

I think the electorate can be forgiven for demanding that the cash is spent wisely. 750,000 graduates in medieval linguistics might not count as 'wise' for everyone. It seems extremely wise for those lecturers and students who get employ in this area and can be forgiven for declaring 'Don't break our hearts'.

The only way that this doesn't look like a rip off is if you believe in Soviet style socialism.

As many of you know, I now live in Singapore, which has a means tested but exceptional health service, is amongst the top 3 globally for public funded edcuation, a dementedly ambitious war machine, a personal savings plan welfare system and zero local resources - and I pay 7% tax. Crazy stuff.

In the UK, dependent on where you are, between 25%-30% of the local population is employed by the state. That's huge. Their salaries are all paid by those people paying tax in the private sector.

Students? Give me a break. I don't want shag happy teenagers making decisions that affect my life. Two years previous they had their willy in their hand for the first time full of the slack jawed wonder that it 'feels nice'.

As for 'universal suffrage', it only works effectively in an environemnt of informed consent. I don't think the general population is daft, but I don't credit them with a desire to either be informed or know what they're consenting to. There's plenty of people on various threads on this forum complaining that I keep bringing 'statistics' into debates that would otherwise be ideological mooning.

That's the graveyard of Quids ideal - it's not referendums, it's mob rule.

[????]

it would be the graveyard of Quids' idea if it was his idea. I just support democracy and Universal Suffrage not referendum read more slowly Huge and take in.

[Huguenot]

;-)

[MrBen]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> Ref an much earlier comment...

>

> UK is a great place to do business or to own a

> business?

I still think both. If you're starting up you have numerous government grants and incentives (many targeted at fringe economic areas), recognition, legislation and support for SME's (the excellent state funded Business Link service, Prince's Trust) and what I think is a more than generous tax on business activity (just 21% Corp tax on profits for small business vs 32%+ Germany and France, entrepreneurs relief at 10% rewarding risk to create jobs etc).

We have a strong geographic positioning - ignore the the doomsayers, London is still at top 2 hub for finance - and a healthy, diverse domestic market for goods and services.

Right now, in the middle of the "deepest recession for 70 years" the buildings around our modest office are bustling with freshly formed 1-5 man enterprises, all taking advantage of this and current low overheads to launch new goods and services. Forget what you read in the papers - this is the reality on the ground. These are the businesses of the future. Training staff, creating jobs and corporation tax for UK PLC coffers....and public services. It's largely thanks to an evolving UK business environment set by both labour and tory policy since the late 70's that we're able to do this.

When you have all this support the rest really is up to the individual involved. Poor Emerson above sounds like a man for whom the wind will always be in his face and for whom failure will always be the fault of somebody else.

> For employees on a higher tax rate in 2011,

> they'll be paying 40% income tax, 11% national

> insurance and 20% VAT on every 'non-vital'

> purchase. If you own a business you'll be paying

> yourself in dividends at 18% tax, and minimum NI

> contributions.

Is this a good country to be an employee? I think yes too. Employment rights, paternity leave, sick pay and just 20% income tax if you earn less than ?38k, and your first 10k is tax free . Even at higher rate, 40% is not out of whack with the rest of the world, especially given our public welfare burden which our business environment helps to support. Singapore (which needs to punch above it's weight) is not a great like for like comparison.

Pedant's note -dividends are not taxed at 18% (I think you mean CGT Huge?). It's 10% up to the higher rate then 25% thereafter after tax credits apply. These rates are tiered to effectively reward investment in profitable enterprise = jobs = CGT and tax revenue = student's tuition fees and the rest....

[Santerme]

It is even better if you register your business in Switzerland.

Which we have not done.

[SeanMacGabhann]

It should be pointed out in any discussion comparing Singapore to UK, that a resident of Singapore sort of HAS to be complimentary about the place

I've had my spats with H, but I wouldn't want this to happen to him

[louisiana]

I don't think a student has been a student until they've been arrested. But obviously, for things that help others, not just for self interest.

['bout now]

I was mildly amused after hearing of Cameron condemning the rioting and destruction of public property.

Bit like the Bullingdon club really.

[Jeremy]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> a resident of Singapore sort of HAS to be complimentary about

> the place

Quite. Not to mention the fact that we're not comparing like-with-like. If we put up a border around London and turned it into a totalitarian state, I dare say we'd also have low taxes.