Looks like Southwark's festive cuts will bite deep!

[Bony Fido]

Just took a walk down to the off-licence and was amazed to see that the Lordship Lane illumination (note the singular!) is up already (outside number 191).

No sign of any more down the road so this must be it for Christmas 2010.

Thanks Scrooge-Wark Council,good to see you're being careful with our money.

[dimples]

and its recycled from last years lot !

[Sue]

There's more in North Cross Road.

[ruffers]

East Dulwich eh? Recycle! Recycle! Just not the Christmas decorations..

[KalamityKel]

Those have lasted years...

[PeckhamRose]

I think they bought them off eBay from Lambeth. They had to collect, though.

[ratty]

Quite happy for them to cancel xmas to preserve jobs!

[louisiana]

I'm with ratty. For me, jobs and important services come first.

I've - very late, I know! - just completed a survey in College ward about priorities in services, and I thought long and hard about what is vital (and what is not). For me it's services for the young and for the old. Stuff like Christmas decorations are nice to have but not vital.

So I'm happy with Southwark not having a display. Or maybe - if they mount a display - why not exchange lights with other local authorities? I see no justification for buying any new ones.

[sophiesofa]

I don't think they should pay for new ones but if they already have them in storage then it would be nice for them to be used, it probably in a tiny way increases shopping in the local businesses (I have no stats for that, just a guess, so could be wrong). I would definitely prefer one person to keep their job than have Christmas lights though.

[louisiana]

Nicely summed up, sophiesofa. I agree entirely.

[James Barber]

I think ensuring our shopping areas are attractive and better used than our area might be used without xmas lights is really important for ensuring local jobs and the services these local businesses provide are kept.

You wont see the Bluewaters of this world decide to cancel their xmas decorations.

[EDOldie]

Don't get excited. It's one they forgot to take down last year.

[Tarot]

I agree James ,when Penge had no lights we drove right through, to Bromley, mind you their blue lights in trees were only just passable. If its Christmas, and you want to sell goods, then you should go with the flow and make it more atmospheric, comercial or not, everyone enjoys Christmas, Its a significant time for Christians, and they dont mind anyone enyoying it with them, Little kids love decorations, How about solar lights :))

[computedshorty]

Just a thought "How many of you use the same decorations each year?"

I use the same with a few extra each year.

Unfortuneatly not so high but they will be there.

[Moos]

I don't understand this thread. The lights are all up as usual, same as the last few years. Only one had been switched on as far as I saw, perhaps by mistake?

[James Barber]

Hi Moos,

EXACTLY!

In fact this year we'll have a few more Christmas lights in East Dulwich with lights on Upland Road around that small cluster of shops.

The traders from there complained business was hard last year and could they have christmas lights to help with trade. This was agreed but from this year and after all the lamp columns had been tested to check they could take the extra loading - physical (wind loading) and electrical before someone asks.

[Huguenot]

"Everyone enjoys Christmas, it's a significant time for Christians, and they dont mind anyone enyoying it with them"

That's cheeky Tarot. Gift giving at the winter solstice predates Christianity, winter markets, the 12 days of "Christmas", yule logs, trees, holly & ivy, ho ho ho are all non-Christian traditions.

There's every evidence that "Christmas" was just the politically motivated theft of other people's celebrations in support of a totalitarian expansionist regime.

You outght to be pleased that the rest of us don't mind sharing our festivals with you Christians.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Bah humbug!

[kford]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Everyone enjoys Christmas, it's a significant

> time for Christians, and they dont mind anyone

> enyoying it with them"

>

> That's cheeky Tarot. Gift giving at the winter

> solstice predates Christianity, winter markets,

> the 12 days of "Christmas", yule logs, trees,

> holly & ivy, ho ho ho are all non-Christian

> traditions.

>

> There's every evidence that "Christmas" was just

> the politically motivated theft of other people's

> celebrations in support of a totalitarian

> expansionist regime.

>

> You outght to be pleased that the rest of us don't

> mind sharing our festivals with you Christians.

Yep, it's your Emperor Constantine, innit?

And wasn't this Jesus bloke born in September 'while shepherds watched their flocks by night'? The sheep and shepherds were under cover from the cold in late December.

[Tarot]

Well Hughenot, when do you think we can all stop fighting the old holy wars. I dont want to know how Christmas arrived, at the point it is now, All I know is , the man or myth,that is celebrated at Christmas, speaks only of peace and goodwill, I for one stand by it,commercial madness, parties. decorations lights , and even socks, Rock on I say, and bugger the past. Jesus asked no one to sacrifice themseves, or others, treated women equal. Old priest, and pagans etc no doubt exploited the situation to suit them, no different to today. So called holy men of all religions,threaten, people with the wrath of God, and at the same time take money off their followers for their keep. They should work, Anyway bring on Christmas lights as well, local shops pay for most of them anyway.I,m rambling. dosed up with cold pills.

[Huguenot]

If you're really full of peace and goodwill, the best way to communicate that would not be by claiming that Christians own "Christmas" and that you're being patronisingly charitable in letting other people celebrate it ;-)

Did you know, during the pre-Christian Roman mid winter festival (called the Saturnalia) masters and slaves changed places for the day (as well as exchanging gifts)?

Seems peace and goodwill is not the sole preserve of Christians eh?

[Tarot]

Well Im afraid we do own Christmas, Its in the name. CHRIST, mass. HenryVIIIth, introduced it, at that time of year,so it coincides with all the winter festivals.Do you know Bob Cratchet by any chance?

[Huguenot]

"Well Im afraid we do own Christmas" [sic]

No you don't. You stole it and renamed it. It's points to the arrogance and self-absorption of the Christian faith that you can't accept that.

Anyway, I love the decorations... coloured lights, trees, generosity of spirit and and gift giving. It's a shame that for some Christians it's more about ownership and religious hectoring.

The celebrations undoubtedly have huge positive social and economic effect at a dismal time of the year - the very reason such celebrations were invented. If Southwark needs to cut something then cutting seasonal celebrations would be short sighted. Take charitable assistance away from churches instead.

[zeban]

For once I agree with Huguenot!!!

[RosieH]

Hey Huguenot, Tarot, how's about a little Winterval agape?